In this insightful episode of The Cole Memo, Cole Preston is joined by Kelly Rippel, an advocate with deep ties to Kansas cannabis reform and industrial hemp policy. Kelly shares groundbreaking research on the long-standing connections between pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly and cannabis, including how corporate interests influenced cannabis prohibition in the Midwest.
Kelly and Cole also explore the evolving landscape of hemp-derived cannabinoids like Delta-8, shedding light on the complexities of unregulated markets and the need for clearer legal frameworks. They discuss the importance of balancing public safety with personal freedom, emphasizing how testing, labeling, and responsible regulation can benefit both consumers and businesses.
Plus, Cole updates listeners on his upcoming mini-documentary screening in Blue Island, Illinois, which gives a retrospective look at how Illinois fell short in achieving meaningful cannabis reform.
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Links mentioned during show
- Kelly Rippel on LinkedIn
- Kelly Rippel on X
- AST Genetics
- RCHemp.com
- Kansans4Hemp on X
- KSCanCoalition on X
- You can download or view the Powerpoint that was displayed during this episode and more by visiting this link, see attachments on this post.
The auto-generated transcript is available below.
hello and welcome to the coal memo folks if you’re in Chicagoland I wanted to let you know that on September 18th at 5:30 p.m. there will be a public screening of my mini documentary which is a retrospective look at what has happened in Illinois cannabis policy if you’d like to learn how I feel that Illinois fell short in achieving meaningful reform this is a great way to do it it’s a short 1 hour long Punchy documentary again you can get your tickets for a Chicago land screening now at the memo.com minoc as I mentioned it’s on September 18th at 5:30 p.m. in Blue Island Illinois it’s at Blue Island Beer Company a place where you can come drink and smoke with me before and after the show maybe even we might even slip out I don’t know for an intermission who knows uh get your tickets now they’re going quick once again at Cole memo.com minoc if you’ve read the reviews they are good box Brown said it’s a cooh straightforward look at the issues plaguing the Illinois cannabis industry and the befuddling nonsense that went into the creation of a law that works for almost no one here is a sneak peek I’m about to show you a sneak peek at the upcoming many documentary and then we’re going to segue right in to today’s episode which should be an interesting one here’s a sneak peek at the mini dock beginning January 1st 2020 the recreational use of canab will be legal in the state of Illinois available to stream now my mini do dives into the history of Illinois legalization starting with January 1st what should we expect the biggest thing that we need people to understand is that January 1 in terms of the Criminal Justice System here in this state is the end of prohibition see how Illinois missed its chance at real cannabis reform with key failures including the fact that the program includes regulation on possession limits so people can still be arrested for possession and I want to highlight that in its first year of legalized recreational marijuana in the state of Illinois they arrested three times as many black people for possession than any other race we’ve run into so much cannabis we’ve run out of places to put it I have represented people and taken their cases through the court system who got charged with more serious crimes only because the police said that they smelled cannabis and not because the police said you have illegal cannabis or not because you have too much cannabis or not because you’re high on cannabis but because I can smell it and that’s it attorney goes he understands that he can’t be smoking and his cannabis flower shouldn’t be open and I was like I’d like to say further record that I was not smoking and my flower was not open so uh that’s where we’re at right now in Illinois and I hope it changes start watching now at coal memo.com [Music] minoc once again folks you can stream that now at cmo.com mini do and uh you can get your tickets now as well so if you purchase it on patreon I would recommend that you don’t purchase it via an iOS device you can purchase it from your computer and then watch it on your iOS device I wouldn’t purchase it from the iOS device why Cole why wouldn’t I purchase it from an iOS device well person that just ask that question Apple actually tax on fees to all purchases that are made from their devices so instead of paying a flat fee of $15 you’d be paying a little bit more and that chunk of change would go to Apple so if you want to pay the flat fee of $15 you can purchase uh you can watch and purchase my mini documentary now at coal memo.com mini do let’s get into the episode I will just say that you should consider getting your tickets to the Blue Island show showing because the the cut that you can buy is not the same cut that will be premiered so if you want to see the most the latest and greatest version and you’re in Chicago land come out to Blue Island Beer Company let’s get into the episode all right well uh you know we just kind of start off like this you know we’ve never met each other so it’s can you go ahead and introduce uh yourself uh to me and my audience and then maybe also tell us where we can find you online yes uh so Cole I am Kelly Ripple and I am from toeka Kansas capital city in the Sunflower State also known as the Free State um and I I’m a lifelong Canan I I was born in Topeka the only time I really spent a long time away from the city was when I went to college uh at Emporia State and that’s like halfway between here and Witchita so I don’t know if you know where where Witchita is but um and I’m a yeah I’m a fifth generation Canen my my family farms I come from kind of a line of Educators Farmers uh civil servants and uh growing up in the capital I was pretty close to policymaking because my mom was the executive assistant to four consecutive uh Senate presidents so I spent a lot of time in the Capal uh growing up in the 90s during the Brownback era and and the I got to see the ins and outs of uh public administration and policy work and so it kind of gave me this sort of um appreciation but also like different understanding about what what goes on uh behind behind the the Senate chambers and all that kind of stuff so um you know long story short uh I’ve been involved with um advocacy efforts in Kansas surrounding cannabis and hemp uh for the past eight nine years and um I over kind of oversaw some of the uh efforts that ended up legalizing hemp and reintroducing hemp for Kansas farmers and I’ve now uh been appointed for three terms I’m serving my third term of uh Industrial Hemp Advisory board with the Kansas Department of a so I’ve seen you know all of this from the beginning how the program has transformed over time and uh but I’ve also uncovered some really interesting history and that’s kind of why I I wanted to share some of this info with you because uh quite frankly it’s connected with Illinois and as you’ll find out um it we we are more connected than than we realize I think and you know the It’s a small world yeah so all these things are interrelated too so yeah yeah and again like thanks thanks for having me Cole this is I I I appreciate your takes on things I follow you uh the the network that’s being created is um it’s pretty great so congrats thank you yeah it’s a pleasure pleasure to meet you and uh you know formally I know we’ve talked uh you know over the years and such but um never formally met so it’s cool to meet and I once again folks I’ll have the social media that I’m connected with at least on uh in the show notes and it looks like you have other other links as well um for other things that you do from there um so cool man well where do we uh where do we want to start today you know the floor the floor is yours cool well I’ll just I’ll go ahead and I’ll share my screen because I do have uh some some slides with some info and we can just like talk talk through this and uh if you know anything just holler out if uh if you have any questions or anything of the sort so what we’re talking about is Kansas is located in the the middle of the US and as of right now we are uh one of a handful of states that have yet to regulate cannabis and uh it’s completely illegal here we allow or they like to say that they allow CBD um and we have uh quite a few law enforcement lobbyist agencies and and um spokespeople who are trying to just eliminate all of it they don’t want any anything to do with with cannabis so the Free State it’s going to be the the Free State yeah uh the police state is is ultimately what it what it has come down to because um I don’t know if you know this but uh Kansas is we we actually incarcerate the most people out of any Democratic uh country in the in the world and that’s at a rate of 648 people per 100 thousand residents so we have a higher percentage than the majority of of uh States and Democratic countries Kansas does so crazy going back to and this is like all of this is it’s going to seem Elementary to some people and fundamental while also um controversial perhaps to some because this is an oversimplification and I know this but this came from South B hemp which is a uh a leader right now in the agricultural hemp space and they are located in in Great Bend Kansas it’s been pretty incredible to watch them uh Thrive and and grow over time but what they did was they created this graphic uh to help educate lawmakers in in the state because we still are up against this Miss nomer and myth that um they’re all the same that hemp turns into marijuana or HEC cannabis and vice versa or you know it the bottom line is it’s all in your genetics right so any farmer who’s going to grow a crop any cultivator it’s all in the seed that you plant right and um the reality is you know the majority of people now know that when we’re saying agricultural or Industrial Hemp that’s that’s fiber and Grain and perhaps CBD because that’s that’s what those varieties predominantly produce um versus hired uh THC and other cannaboids so that’s kind of what we’ve been up against the biased but the the the bias goes way back and you know a lot of people maybe at at one time knew that Kansas was kind of at the Forefront of of uh policy and freedom because we were at at one point you know we were the leader of the suffrages movement um and also unfortunately uh and of course we got the free state name because it was uh founded as a free state but when we go back there were some pretty staunch prohibitionist uh movements in the temperance movement with Carrie Baker uh Carrie Nation I’m sorry uh carrye nation was a a a huge proponent of uh doing away with all liquor all alcohol she was a prohibitionist and um when alcohol was abolished well when Al alcohol prohibition was abolished uh there was this sentiment of people who used certain substances and whether they were you know considered demons and and all of this stuff there was a lot of obviously racism because that that transitioned then to Hispanics black and brown people who were utilizing other substances that white people didn’t want in didn’t want around whatever and we do know that there was uh and this says in 1933 uh there was a really racist uh piece that was written and you should look this up it’s marijuana with an h and one of the two men was from witch talk Kansas and you know it’s there’s so there’s there’s Deep Roots within the state uh going back a long time now uh even further you know World War II we did grow it uh for the war efforts and Farmers grew in Kansas and even further back 1863 Kansas was uh the highest grossing bushel per acre uh state in the US of industrial hemp but when we look at things like the marijuana tax act in 1937 and then the 1970 uh controlled substance act what I discovered is there was some research done at Kate and I know this because my dad talked about it when I was a teenager I came home from dare class one time and I was like hey Dad what do you know about this plant uh marijuana that we’re hearing about in school and he was like well what I know is we did some research at caseate and we studied the ways that you kill it and try to eradicate it and I I just thought man that’s weird like why would we study ways to kill a plant like something we know grows well and you know he explained all this they strapped tanks of 24d to their backs and they used flamethrowers and tried to infest it and all this kind of stuff and I was like that’s is ridiculous so this Grows All Over the state well come to find out that well okay so I I I learned that early on you know I I live my my pretty much my whole ad adolescent adult life and I had discovered those full text Publications that my dad was a part of and he was just a volunteer student but these were projects that were overseen by someone named BJ Eaton and uh Dr l i I believe he was a doctor he’s Professor Eli Lily was overseeing these studies and I I when I discovered this I was like well that’s that’s interesting you know Eli Lily and deonco which are part of the same conglomerate that’s a Global pharmaceutical and chemical company and I I just I I thought well okay all right so that’s that’s interesting and also Kate is still uh receiving funding from those entities and actually it was just announced the other day that ilano uh is investing I think a few hundred million dollars to expand within the animal health Corridor which is in Kansas uh so you know obviously these these entities are are huge and they’re still producing well when I went back further I I thought it was so fascinating that Eli Lily has come to learn come to find out they’ve been in the Cannabis game for a long time and they produ they were one of the top producing cannaboid uh product manufacturers prior to the the uh 1937 marijuana tax act and so in the early 1800s and uh early 1900s even back going back to the 1700s Lily was involved with uh cannaboid manufacturing cannaboid Bas products well yeah and I just small comment it was just cool to see it was from Indianapolis that’s all I had yes it is that’s where they were based and though a couple slides back it mentioned that’s where they they were out of Blanco I think was in Missouri at the time but um yeah no absolutely and when I kind of kept looking at this it it appeared that um so this this document was in 1978 so even up to you know 78 this is saying Eli Lily had been working on synthetic analoges to THC and naalone is mentioned so naalone was uh first patented by Eli Lily and that is one of the only FDA approved C cannaboid based medicines or had been up until you know probably about 5 or 10 years ago so isn’t it interesting that Eli Lily uh was involved even clear up to 1989 this that publication this just came out this week I believe but they uh this is showing that they discontinued one of their the isomers that they were developing uh in in 1989 so isn’t it interesting that we’ve got company who uh clearly saw a therapeutic benefit in cannabis and what biosynthesized products come from Cannabis and the plants and these are the studies ultimately the documents that I have uncovered so going back and what I found interesting is this shows that Nixon’s Administration oversaw they funded eradication in Kansas and these three studies longevity germination and emergence of wild hemp uh identifying and controlling wild hemp or in parenthesis marijuana which are not the same we know now and seasonal fluctuations and cannaboid content of Kansas marijuana those three studies um were part of that marijuana uh steering committee that was establishing in Kansas and part of a multi-state cohort that I’m getting to here so here is a couple studies um an ecological ecological study of naturalized hemp in eastern central Illinois that study I believe references uh these research that were that were done at K State but these are just some examples that I wanted to share of uh evaluations that researchers did about hemp you’ll show you’ll see down below here on the bottom graph hemp is shown to have the highest content of for energy that Bob White Quail uh obtained from that food source and up above in the upper right hand reducing the impact of wild hemp control on farm game what they did was they surveyed far farmers and uh they found out that farmers not only didn’t think that hemp was competing with other crops they weren’t concerned that people were somehow going to find their fields and start growing marijuana in the middle of it or something I mean these are these were myths that were uh narratives being shared by the media yellow journalism you know all these things that we know about now um and so I’ll I’ll get to a little bit of of that fi those findings but I showed this slide because this does prove uh from that attorney general’s first report 1972 that highlighted there Kansas a program to eradicate marijuana believed to be the first of its kind so this shows that in Kansas we were the very first state that received funding in order to kill what they thought was marijuana and I don’t have enough time Cole to show you all this but all I can share like I said these full Texs in those cannaboid fluctuation research documents they prove that what’s growing wild in Kansas is fiber and grain varieties it’s not it’s not marijuana so they proved it and yet they went ahead and just outlawed all all forms of it um this is going back to that controlled uh cost sharing survey that they did and I just think this is so fascinating when you look at some of these examples of why this didn’t work this was such a they knew at that time this was so specious it was it was not feasible to try to eradicate hemp and yet they did and it solidified increased chemical use in agriculture because other states did this if you look at the um image up above the top right hand corner 10 other states did this Illinois Indiana Iowa Kentucky Michigan Minnesota and Missouri South Dakota and Wisconsin so these were all part of the um North Central weed control conference that was the that was the group that uh this was kind of all all done actually what they were called yes yeah and and this was part of now mind you this was part of a an agriculture movement that that ultimately intersected with these interests okay so I’m I’m I mean quite frankly I’ve presented on this information in a number of settings including internationally and it’s it’s been said that this was groundbreaking this is one of the reasons why I’ve needed to get this out and one of the reasons I greatly appreciate you covering this because these are missing links to the story of prohibition and why there was actually more corporate exclusivity corporate capture going on behind the scenes than anyone ever has realized and I don’t think we probably will ever know but this is a tip of an iceberg because I guarantee all those States in this North Central weed conference they have their own archive that they had to that they could go back and search for this type of information and I guarantee they would find it wow um and and I’m not saying that there are uh you know ulterior I mean of course there were ulterior motives by a number of people but this is just an example it highlights the the level of collusion that had to come about in order to orchestrate like all of this it wasn’t just a couple you know few people doing this and that like this was a concerted effort that was orchestrated through the research and extension offices within each state this interesting this one of yeah no go ahead I don’t mean to jump ahead it sounds like you’re probably about to get to it but like and I mean you kind of touched on it in different ways you said the increase in pesticides use usage or chemical usage rather started with this well it it did it it wasn’t it didn’t start that started a long time ago I mean like the plow uh as soon as the plow Hit the Dirt things really started going down as far as like you know monoculture and and conventional farming practices and so the chemicals came along after especially during the war efforts and all of that this 1970 uh control substance act all of that that solidified more it was an increase go there was now more reason that farmers needed to use more insectus use more pesticides you know all herbicides and that’s what they tested on was these chemicals that were donated by chemical companies to get in front of these audiences um wow and and so here’s here’s another thing that I think is interesting Farmers knew at that time that if you remove something that is considered invasive or robust let’s say if you remove that you’re going to allow other more invasive to come in and what has happened over time is that um infiltration of much more invasive plants farmers are now dealing with uh things that have become res resistant uh daa you know all of these things they they have become Roundup you know resistant glycate um and they’re dealing with pig weed fox tail you know amarith all of these things where and and especially things like poisonous Hemlock which is awful that’s a poisonous plant so we removed hemp and Farmers Knew by doing that we would uh not only decrease biodiversity and and soil health and and all these things habitat but we would allow for other things to come in and that’s exactly what’s happened so um yeah there’s a a lot there and but yeah we know now that him is is uh it’s here to stay again and for good reason because this is what we’re really looking at as far as the long-term development economic development for for Kansas farmers and and communities so this is I just wanted to throw this in there because um it’s it’s this the sky is not the limit with hemp and we’re finding that out and so um these are some additional resources that I I had thrown in drug as far as drug policy goes I’m of the the mindset that we really should be treating this much more like other other products other plants um we’ve needed hemp especially to be treated like all all other crops like corn and soybean and you know we’ve needed to remove the barriers and uh so that’s kind of what we’re working towards we’re we’re trying to get the word out about um all the benefits that hemp has that that cannabis in general has and so like I said I’ve been involved with the the effort to at least regulate medical cannabis in in Kansas to start out with and um we now have folks who are are just all about getting it getting it regulated and legalized for adult use and um you know there’s there’s a lot of as you know there’s a lot of competing priorities loyalties and evidence in this but um I’m just I’m here to to be a part of it and um and try to try to supply some information about how we can maybe do things better than what we have done in the past so um I guess that’s stop sharing that’s kind of my Spiel but uh if there’s anything you want me to go back to or whoops I was muted uh I wanted to give you the space uh to go through that and yeah I may have you toggle back to some slides I took some notes as we were going through um first I just wanted to show you something that I thought you would find cool just cuz like old data and you know archived history is it’s cool right so um sharing my screen right now this is a newspaper clipping and I’ll zoom in so that we can read the fine print here in a moment um but this is a newspaper clipping that shows hemp growing uh W wild marijuana as they called it in Illinois and um I’m going to stop my screen share for just a second so that I can open this up in a program that I can like actually zoom in on and uh I will share my screen again here in just a second so that we can read the fine print because it’s kind of cool the history on this um I want folks to Google for sure what I’m about to say just to confirm it but going to zoom in here first of all let’s look at the plant again pretty cool right um so it’s along the side of it looks like just a regular like corn or Bean field um and it says says the War on Drugs so this is from September 14th 1989 um and it was from Peoria Illinois a newspaper it looks like um the War on Drugs can’t battle The Winds of the midwestern Prairie marijuana that hardiest of Illinois ditch weeds annually spreads its seeds on farms throughout the area and not even the 3,000 acre Knox County Farm of John block former US Secretary of Agriculture is immune so it’s cool about John block I’m pretty sure and this is what I want people to Google the Illinois Department of Agriculture at least one of their buildings that I’ve been to where the division of cannabis is at the hemp program is at that’s called the John R Block building um so kind of cool you know this comes full circle again if this is the John block I mean that’s a pretty common name I’m sure there’s a lot of John blocks but if this is the you know who they named that building after um that’s this is pretty cool history right here so I just wanted to share that um it is I I love it and you know getting back to the the the roots I mean it is of course we we could talk all day and it it just it doesn’t compare with what other other continent other people in other continents other cultures um civilizations over time have worked with hemp and cannabis forever and um we are just now kind of getting having the opportunity we’re fortunate to have the opportunity to work and learn these ancient lessons that this plant has to teach everyone and so it’s like I I love learning about those times in in US history where yeah things really didn’t they didn’t go the way people thought they went but like we’re now at the point where we can make something happen um so kind of to the to your point about the the department of a after I got appointed in Kansas to the hemp Advisory Board I went to the top Emeritus professor at Kansas State University and he actually taught Sam Brown Governor Brownback uh and among other lawmakers and and kind of important dignitaries in Kansas and I sat at his desk multiple times and I had these conversations with him where he admitted openly he was like we should have been growing hemp a long time ago it only makes agronomic sense to grow something that you can have a value ad these you know I’m a crop adjuster uh full-time so that’s what I do in in my full-time um so I go out and I appraise soybean fields that have been damaged by you know storms or or drought whatever Farmers Harvest soybeans for one purpose and that’s the the beans the pods that may go go to ethanol which is not a sustainable source of Bio biofuel or it may go to livestock feed we’re not feeding people with with that in Kansas but the reality is if if a farmer plants hemp they could harvest the top off of it get the seed that could go to a number of sectors and then they would have the entire stock after that and that could go to a number of sectors I mean this is like the the end use Revenue that can come from one yield from hemp doesn’t even really you can’t compare it to other crops because those it just doesn’t exist and so like that getting getting Farmers to understand that getting investors processors all of these these people uh and and decision makers to understand that is now where we’re at and and um you know it’s I’ve I’ve watched it I’ve watched the plane be built as it as it we tried to fly it and I think things are really starting to take off uh because honestly I I can’t share the data publicly yet but I’ve got numbers from the Department of a that proves um things are are we’ve already seen the shrinking let’s say because you know the the CBD Market was huge like Farmers yeah when you give them something they’re they’re going to grow a lot you know and there was just this huge expansion of CBD and and hemp on the market that’s where we got Delta 8 all these other products people had to offload play chemist and have a lot of biomass um go away and so that that was one of the reasons I think for the the major boom but the pandemic happened I mean I I helped a producer here I’m with as genetics now but a local hemp producer they I helped them launch during the pandemic and it was so difficult and um we’ve seen that Bo and bust and all of that with CBD and and the alternative cannaboid markets I mean that’s an we you and I could have an entire podcast just about alternative cannaboid products oh yeah yeah because it’s just Kansas is completely unregulated right that’s all we have here well do you guys have like a hemp program at least like a hemp license program no no you don’t even have like licensing for hemp people the only LIC that is required in Kansas is if you’re a farmer and you are cultivating him or you’re a processor and you are either decorticating Andor extracting hemp it it do you there is no uh license or requirement to possess sell there is there are no requirements around hemp products and that has opened the doors for inconsistent enforcement and I’ll tell you and like I said this could be an entire discussion but I’ve been in contact with District Attorneys all throughout Kansas for the past several years because they are now receiving pressure to not prosecute or to to Pro they’re receiving pressure to prosecute these raids so we’ve got kbi Kansas Bureau of Investigation they’re wanting to go after retailers for selling these products they’re like ah we don’t want that in our communities we don’t want Mar blah blah blah it’s it’s in their communities regardless you know right and we know that if if we’re truly if we truly care about public health and safety we’re going to regulate a supply that is in obvious demand um but they they don’t want anything to do with it and so by county by county we’ve got agencies where on a whim they’re saying we’re going to go after these hemp ret retailers because we think what they have is illegal but what’s happening is local agencies in Kansas rural districts these are you know couple hundred couple thousand people per County they don’t have the funds to do it they’re already strapped for resources they should be focusing on much you know more serious crimes but they are sacrificing Community relationships with people who are small businesses that are just trying to get by and it it’s it’s causing cusing it’s causing major issues and like I said these Das they’re receiving political pressure so it’s now a this is a it’s a political issue it always has been but it’s driven by bias and it’s driven by confusion because the law enforcement agencies don’t even understand the state statute let alone federal statute you know federal law and how they intersect and all that but they’re trying to make Kansas law more strict than the federal law and um it’s not working in their favor and I don’t think it will long term either because prohibition failed you know and it has continued to so is it is it playing though at all to your benefit like as a Canen who I assume smokes like if you get pulled over can you just be like yo this is that’s what you you’re smelling is thca my my friend oh I I don’t I mean it’s not that you should I’m not saying that you’d be smoking I’m saying like if you had a bag you know like a totally legit situation where it’s Out Of Reach do you think it’s pling at all to people’s like favor in terms of like you said there’s no law against it so if you say oh this is hemp is that getting people out of trouble now at all I I think it I think it could uh in certain circumstances and in most circumstances we’re saying that it doesn’t right because it’s just we yeah so so people no because they literally here’s the problem they literally cannot prove if it’s hemp or high THC cannabis right the roadside test the field test the kbi has no and this is they’ve verified this I they’ve they’ve verify this in testimony and in front of committees I I’ve heard it multiple times point blank the kbi has no physical way of analyzing any type of product they can only analyze plant material yeah even even then it’s only presence uh not even ratios of cannabis just presence of of THC they have gone so far as to try to bend legislative rules to include all total THC instead of just Delta 9 too I mean we’ve seen some some some trickery but um yeah that’s interesting yeah the state of Illinois is similar like uh our cannabis regulation oversight officer said that like people a lot of times if they get pulled over like by by local law enforcement or whatever if if they say I can’t remember exactly the scenario they laid out but the point is local law enforcement will have these issues just like you described and they can’t quote go in because what they’re selling is not by the the color of the law or at least to your point that you just made they can that they can prove is illegal right on their face it’s they’re saying it’s hemp it’s completely legal and then what you’re saying and what we’re experiencing also in Illinois is the police can’t prove whether or not it is in fact hemp you know we’re actually just now getting to the point where the state has like a a state-based lab but based on what I’m talking uh with with the state it doesn’t sound like it’ll be used for this per se like it wouldn’t be used for that those types of purposes yet maybe maybe in the future but um yeah it’s just interesting the there you you can see why I was asking that because it’s like are some people that I know that literally like sell weed in Illinois that sell weed under the guise of it being thca and it’s like a way around like actually I’m SM smoking on some of it now because it’s from um a licensed cannabis company in the state of Illinois so it’s like a brand that I feel a little bit more you know comfortable with because they’ve got like a reputation to uphold and they are they are actually licensed so um but they sent it to me through the now you know like and so uh there’s like those things where it’s like it seems like what has happened is cool but that I think might get into your graph that you had on uh one of your last slides maybe that’s a good place to start well actually before we start there and I know we just kind of got into that um but maybe we can return to that because that was one of the last notes I had I wanted to start at I think what was slide two and you said that I think if I’m right slide two too if you don’t mind pulling it up and sharing it um I believe you said it was an oversimplification so I’m not going to try to like get on you on that but what I actually wanted to ask you was about something you had said later in the um presentation which I feel like uh elaborates on that slide with EXA and addresses like the thoughts that I had so I wanted to see if I’m picking up what you’re putting down so yes on this one um so you said you know this is an oversimplification of the idea of these being two species but later on in the presentation you had said you had talked about fiber and grain varieties and that’s really kind of how I look at the distinction and maybe that’s what you meant by it being an oversimplification right it it is it yes ultimately so because we can’t say that hemp is not therapeutic or that there are not therapeutic properties of hemp because that’s that’s simply not true and um it it it goes through the same biosynthesis process uh that all cannabis plants do and so it produces cannaboids turpins you know polyphenols all of these things that the flavonoids that all cannabis does but uh it is within ratios and they’ve done the they’ve done enough research that they know the actual subspecies of hemp does produce predominantly higher CBD contents of of cannaboids um and so that that’s I think that’s where like and and you have to you have to explain all of that you have to cite your sources you know we’re all about the science and all that stuff right and so like that’s where I I because I come from from the Science Background that’s I had a career in public health and in healthcare and auditing and all this stuff so like I’m all about all about data and I know you are too yeah and so like I want I want to be accurate I want it to be correct but this is this right here yeah it is it is a an oversimplification just for the the simple um understanding that when we’re saying marijuana right it is high THC higher higher cannaboid higher just all profiles right of an inflorescence which is the bud and that’s not why you harvest a hemp plant you can Harvest a hemp plant for CBD and and that is that that is one uh subsection yes but when I’m talking about hemp predominantly like in the grand scheme of things especially when I use the word agricultural hemp that’s what I’m talking fiber and grain you know and so it’s like yeah the all these nuances within it and and being able to uh talk about it more nuanced like that has been the the struggle and yeah well one of the examples I like that you gave and maybe this makes you understand why I’m like underlining the point that you made again I’m not trying to you you told me right up front that this is an oversimplification but I like to get into the details and stuff and I’m curious from your perspective uh so like setting this reflects I feel like the federal law as it stands right now you know what I mean so like setting that aside I’ve always been curious what what actually is scientifically and I don’t even know if that’s the right way so I’m going to ask my question then I want to give you like a little bit of background and something else you said and then I can Reas the question in case I lost you here um but like what actually is the def the difference between hemp and you know let’s call it marijuana it like and the reason I’m asking that is because like as you said one of the um the examples that you gave that I give all the time I [ __ ] love it because it’s largely true here in Illinois you said like if you go and get corn in the field in Illinois like I always like to use that example cuz sometimes people travel here there’s like a different wedding venues you know and so people will be like taking pictures with the corn and some people have asked me they’re like like seriously it’s like a photo op they’ve never seen corn before I know it sounds hilarious but honestly they like sunflowers here yeah yeah yeah true it’s just the same as that so they like can you get a picture of me with all this corn it’s crazy yeah sure I guess um but anyways um they’ve they’ve asked like when I’m giving another phone back do you guys ever just like come out and like grab some and like we’re like no it’s not sweet corn right so like the question I’m asking is is there a distinction like that because like if I could share my screen momentarily uh I wanted to show two things oh yeah yeah I’ll stop sh yeah um so first John block building that’s just for what we were talking about earlier but you know like most people I feel like when they’re talking about hemp this is what they’re thinking of this like long fibrous um tall they’re tall tall like I feel like it’s usually not like those short Stout you know colas that you think of when you think of like cannabis or marijuana is as we were like calling it you know in this context like so I guess my question is I think you used the word varieties earlier is there like is there an actual like do we have like solid steady this is hemp seed this is get what I’m saying yeah yes absolutely and and you know you can talk to a number of of people people in the hemp industry that I think would would agree with you I mean these are these are genetics that are breed for specific end uses and just like this photo where you know we’re talking about Peppers right so these are clearly cousins it’s a great analogy because we all love like I love Peppers red pepper green pepper they’re clearly cousins of jalapenos right they’re all Peppers but they’re cousins only one of them is spicy yeah that’s the jalapeno that’s the mar that’s the marijuana and so it’s like you have to you uh dogs Kines you have German Shepherd you also have a poodle their cousins they’re they’re they’re all they’re canines but they’re clearly different they they are they produce different you know all of this so they genetically are different uh genetic expressions and so yes uh to to answer your question there in my opinion and and what I’ve seen we are on the precipice of a a revolution with science when it comes to um developing research and development with cannabis and hemp because we now have ai we’ve got all of these tools at our fingertips that uh quite frankly now can access very robust and well-developed genomes that have been curated and phenoh hunted throughout years and generations for different varieties or or what I say cultivars you know so like I use those those terms interchangeably and yes there are very specific like uh it depends on who you look uh for look look with the company it is but like they’ve done entire maps of of genomes and they can specify yes this is more fiber forward this is more seed or grain forward these are more you know inflorescent bud forward yeah what you’re getting into like this is what I feel like the conversation should be around him because like look I love I honestly and this will get us to the other point you had and if you have something else you’re about to show but I just wanted to say show this really quick this is from box Brown and this is why I ask it because definition you showed at the beginning I said it’s that’s the federal definition you’re reflecting right and I was like I want to talk about the science because the federal definition makes as he’s showing a gummy like this at least is uh as he says the language has been extrapolated to mean uh by some people you know obviously everybody has a different interpretation of this some people are saying it’s in clear violation of the law but this is what a lot of people are doing right now and even one State Minnesota codified this you know to allow for Edibles and gummies kind of under this structure and idea and um I feel like that’s where a lot of the like frustration comes from this debate because it’s like the federal government made up this funny definition basically by the by the they did they they did and you can and a lot of people have have pointed this out it goes back to the Canadian taxonomic report that that came out uh in the in the early 70s and by the way that taxonomic report um not only did those two scientists come out and say later that uh THC should have never been put into to law and to statute that was just an evaluation that was never peer-reviewed they never went through that never went through a process but that same taxonomic report cited the K State studies that I uncovered oh wow so it’s all connect it’s all connected they Ed biased data to try to I mean they that’s what they did uh the other thing that I wanted to show you real quick here is the um I just I think this is fascinating these things are I mean kind of to the the point of being able to evaluate uh where cannabis has come from o over time and where it’s going so see right here you know there is there’s clearly this delineation between uh I like how it says drug type drug type that’s that’s what it is a you know that’s what someone somewhere some wanted to to classify it as is a drug type fiber and Drug type is actually the terminology they used in the K State studies as well um just to kind of make that that that’s interesting because it’s like am I wrong in saying I know I made a little bit of a joke about it but like there we’ve identified like okay it’s like okay humanity is using this variety of hemp for fiber you know these textiles we’re observing that humanity is using this type of uh cannabis they’re they’re consuming it and they’re enjoying it is that kind of what this is showing drug type is that what that means uh I mean this isn’t this isn’t an analysis of specific genetics and okay and um yeah these are these are seeds I mean these are like plants that they have analyzed and said these plants develop these traits and so they they have to be classified in these kind of categories understood gotta but um but again we it’s it’s so nuanced because of the variability the plant itself is so variable um and I just this is again I mean the science now that we know about the endocannabinoid system and how it interacts within our bodies and how it basically is the conductor yeah of all our organs I mean that’s that’s it just all of these things are um expanding all the time right so we always see data about this and and really that’s what I like to do is just kind of like dig into this stuff and um and share it because I believe in open access information and empowering others so much like you’ve done here Cole and again I just being able to to to talk about it openly and and you know I I can’t thank you enough yeah yeah I hope people are as intrigued as as I am what were you gonna say I was gonna say if if you if you don’t have any other questions like I do okay I do have some other questions but if you have something else to show too I mean I’ve got them noted so like don’t let me slow you down bro I can I can roll with the punches um so um just throwing this out there I don’t even know I don’t even really want to devote that much air time to this but it’s just interesting um you know I’m not sure if you’ve heard about this person you brought up marijuana and I always also thought that that was like a racially based term made up in propaganda and everything else but there this person now admittedly the person that told me this was a um prohibitionist they work for smart approaches to marijuana I’ve had them on my show a few times so take that for what it’s worth yeah you know I’m prefacing this with that uh but they write that this person named Isaac Campos has written that marijuana is are you familiar with this I I yes I yep what can you please tell me because they tell me this I Google it I don’t I don’t have enough time to do a bunch of you know research and I don’t know if you have what what are your what is your take on that person’s take are okay so are are you are you referring to the um the the societal kind of narrative around the word the word marijuana yeah cuz I that was trying to make that point I was like I told them they should take marijuana out of their name if they want to call themselves smart approaches to marijuana like it should be called smart approaches to cannabis if you want to be like smart about it and I was like you’re being I was trying to make the point that you’re using a racist term and they were like well no it’s not because Isaac Campo said yeah so that’s why I’m asking you I I all right that’s a yeah so my understanding is um two things can be true at the same time but okay yeah and when we’re talking about the English language and vernacular um that very true marijuana the term has been used as a racist term it it it has been used that way and derogatory you know uh Prejudice is inherent in h in The Human Condition right so like no one is immune to Prejudice and uh what I know about the word marijuana is that I believe it it originated in in Mexico or what would have been you know Latin America at that time and like uh unknown uh country but it was the civilization that was already there that was indigenous to that area and when the Spaniards came over and later introduced hemp through uh you know for sales and rope and all of that that’s how they used it but the people who were there living utilized cannabis in a different way and they use it for medicine they they use it for a lot of different things but I believe and this I’m I’m this is a white man’s bastardization of this okay so don’t don’t quote me on this but my take my my understanding is that the people there in Latin America use the word marijuana as a a sort covert like uh way to talk about cannabis to sort of trick the Spaniards and um you know Mary St Mary obviously the mother Mary was very revered and still is by by Latin America L cultures and they they use the term marijuana um as a way to talk about the the Cannabis that they knew about that’s interesting is that is that anything like you’ve heard or is that just am I we off we off on that no again I didn’t do you know I Googled it and found that he did write an article claiming that but the thing is I read it and I’m like okay Isaac Campos I’ve never heard of you before I how do I prove what you know so I’ve actually heard that from multiple sources yeah no no I’m not I want to be clear I’m not questioning what you just said yeah I was just saying like that’s why when I like when I Googled it I was like you know how do we know yeah right exactly especially while I was on air I was like trying to fact check them on air like let’s let’s see what this [ __ ] guy wrote you know but that’s the thing I I may be wrong uh the story may be wrong like it it is it is that’s a word of mouth type of type of thing which is I I love but I just I think there has to be more to it um no one no one ever truly knows the story and we can’t claim to right I mean there are there are there there are always things that we don’t know about um but uh but yeah my my take is that it it then was used uh it was adopted by white people and they they utilized it to demonize and yeah yeah so anyways like I said I uh just wanted to I’m glad you know sounds like you had heard I I really appreciated answer that like two things can be true at the same time never really thought about it that way and again I had not done enough research to to learn about that so thank you that was uh that was cool um so yeah I mean just kind of back and this will get us to one of those last slides that at least I had noted that I wanted to discuss and if you had other things to share uh as well would love to get into it um but um that last slide if you could pull it up it’s got the like chart I feel like do did you present at Parabola Center or something or did they use that chart at Parabola Center because I saw that chart uh I’m a I’m listed as like a parabola Center partner and so I saw that chart on one of their uh I feel like it was one of their presentations or something and yeah I which by the way I’d like to talk with you about that afterwards because um I’d kind of like to support their their efforts as much as I can too um been I’ve been talking with with shayen and others but I just yeah I really support prevalin and you know their my my take is like they they kind of um base their organization on this reality that there are better ways of regulating drugs and this graph was originally um you know cited by Dr Julian Buchanan who’s a well-known drug policy expert and uh I actually saw the the Twitter conversation or X conversation between shayen title and Dr panan before Parabola was even an organization about this graph because they were trying to trying to pinpoint where because it’s gone through multiple iterations uh actually I think this particular version came from the transform um drug policy and from their uh Third Edition of best how to regulate cannabis I think that’s where this specific Rec came from but yeah so ultimately what this is showing um you know we’ve got Ultra prohibition on the far left and so I guess the the harms the the spectrum of harms on the um on the bottom access axis and then obviously Social and Health harms on the vertical and when we look at the way Alcohol Tobacco all of that’s regulated now it’s it’s all the way out there this is commercial promotion um these are things that have enjoyed Decades of economic protection and um that are now seeing decreases of sales revenue in states that have legalized cannabis because of um well for a lot of different reasons but you know when we look at from a public health standpoint we just have to have some parameters there has to be framework around what it is that that is available and like we said earlier this isn’t high demand um Kansas has become a completely saturated unregulated market for alternative cannaboid products and it’s because uh we have Ultra prohibition and so that criminal Market is we we’ve got the the most harms that we can have right now and I you know prohibitionists like to they like to say oh well this adolescent use is going to increase if you legalize well no data show that that’s not that’s not happening and now we’ve got data showing that Delta eight Poison Control Center calls are worse in States states that are uh completely prohibited well we’ve known that in Kansas for ever but um we we’ve somehow gotten through to the point with with lawmakers here that it’s an economic issue we are exporting billions of dollars to Oklahoma Colorado Missouri because I mean it’s it’s clear that Kansas Kansas City is the largest city it’s the heaviest populated city in Kansas and it borders Missouri which is Kansas City crazy you can’t you there’s there’s there’s no and and the other thing is um we know now that there are at least over 2,000 Kansas residents that have medical Camp cards from Missouri or Missouri oh yeah that’s right because you can get yeah it’s interesting so anyway yeah no I love this graph too this is a it’s a great one I am so keep that up because I like I like this so first of all I’ve smoked weed with Julie Holland I’m pretty sure I just Googled her and I’m pretty sure I’ve smoked weed with Julie Holland um in Denver Colorado uh at Jane West’s house I was smoking weed with her for quite a while and then this guy came out who I was talking with earlier and he like had a moment he was like oh my God I can’t believe you’re here he wasn’t talking to me he was talking to Julie and uh was a huge fan and I did not know who Julie was I was just sharing a joint with her cuz like you want to smoke some weed with me and she was like yeah and so we were just like smoking weed and talking I you know just asking her how her day was and stuff and then comeing to find out she is Julie Holland so cool little story um but anyways um you know uh this graph is interesting to me and I was really excited to talk to you about it cuz I like I I get it but one of the things I was going to ask was like what is is St like the middle right which seems to be ideal right am I right in that like the middle green strict legal regulation is kind of like your ideal place because it’s the lowest Social and Health harms what does that I know this is like a big question but what does that look like so in my opinion when you’re taking the components of this specific graph the things that are on the left that is harm reduction and decriminalization and on the right you have light Market regulation if you have those two together which in in my opinion so we’re when we’re talking about like okay harm reduction uh these are these are evidence-based approaches we’re talking uh safe syringe centers Noone methadone clinics uh alternative emergency uh care you know things Social Services things that are are heavily needed while also decriminalizing personal possession personal use and at the same time um allowing for cultivation and uh personal personal cultivation basically and setting up the system to allow that there are perfect examples of Spain and Italy for social clubs for um the fact that when you allow people to cultivate and as a as a garden or hobby that lowers crime rates there’s a direct correlation between Grow shops and allowing people to cultivate and and violent crime rates um and so like I believe that a strict legal regulation while that while that while it says in the middle strict legal regulation I believe that includes all of what I’ve just spoken about and it may include things like um SE to sale tags and things like that now because I don’t operate currently in a legal system in a legal State I know that there are things that I’m leaving out that there are blind spots but what I do know is that um for Missouri for example I am good friends with a professor who is at the St Louis University cannabis um program he’s been a caregiver for several years now and he he gets it he also understands that seed to sale tracking and all of that it is it serves multiple purposes and so I think there there is room to um negotiate to like you know find out what is the best and and like we’ve talked about that’s that you have to you have to engage the Legacy you have to engage the market Market that were there before Prohibition in order to make that happen you have to engage people who use drugs in order to make that happen and even though the the legal regulations may be considered strict if they in if they incorporate all the necessary stakeholders and they are based in equity and evidence then there’s no reason why it can’t be a win-win win situation and I know that that’s that’s sort of abstract and maybe like oh that’s pie in the sky but like I’ve seen enough data both from the United States and elsewhere to know that it can happen it there are better ways of what we’re of what we’re doing now and um and yeah it’s the other the other part of it though is in in a strict legal regulation sort of framework you have to be able to adapt and that means having the data and research available and that’s that has to be first and foremost like you can’t just go out and say oh we’re just going to try this now or whatever like no that it it has you have to have strategy behind all of it um but it can’t be too complicated like like we said from the beginning I mean Farmers need hemp treated like any other crop you know we just need this to be accessible to people and and also regulated to the point where um you know it makes sense and yet we’re not in encroaching on on on too much because we’re not seeing the same thing for like we talked about like coffee and craft brew and all that they’re they don’t have child uh you know any P sort of packaging requirements or things that they don’t have to you know try to Market we know we shouldn’t be marketing towards children but we we can’t lose sight of what the creative uh aspect of what cannabis is and and what it exudes I think and so adults should be left to be adults you know and yeah so yeah and you know like the reason I ask and find this chart so like interesting is because as you probably know like I don’t know in some ways I kind of love what has happened with the farm bill I do see where there that’s why I also find that this this again this just kind of adds to why this this graph is so fascinating because on one hand great things have happened on the other hand there have been news reports that make people feel uneasy I think that’s just the most easy way to say it whether it’s the Delta 8 thing you were just talking about um you know or anything else that has happened um you know people will bring that up and they’ll say this is why this shouldn’t have happened and I don’t I don’t know my whole I get I get a little like I get where people are coming from on that because it’s like of course if people are consuming enormous unmeasured doses of something they’re probably having a bad experience but I hate that oftentimes it seems their answer to that is like we have to make it illegal we have to ban this and it’s like no you know like that what these stories often sound like like somebody came on my podcast and they were or actually no we were watching a press release and they were talking about how um one of their friends went to this place it’s called like the wake and bakery in Chicago it’s one of these like hemp cafes and they bought a slice of bread or something you know like a muffin or whatever and uh they were asked you know do you want it sleepy snoozy or what you know they had these like funny ways of I guess telling you how quote unquote potent it is these guys got one that they thought would be the level that were you know was good for them and the guy says that they were high for two days right now that sounds bad and he used that as a bad story but like my view on it was like that honestly is like a really awesome story and like personal freedom like you guys wanted to have like a wacky day now did it go did you go a little far yeah but we all have that story with alcohol too um and so like I hate these stories cuz like while they’re right it’s like damn of course this is happening cuz as you just said it’s like without you know a regulation or like a label that anything that anybody can go by it’s like of course this is happening but is the answer to make it illegal like no no nope this is and and I’m glad you said that because the the whole thing and really it should be strict legal regulation and education because that truly is what it’s about and we’ve known that since Colorado legalized in 2014 we’ve known that since California was you know these are these are things that um every everyone yeah it has their own experience with but the if you have regulations about label about um testing requirements people actually know what is in those products they know the contents you know all of that now here’s another part though when we’re seeing we’re seeing a bunch of of recalls right thousands of products of recalls in Missouri um that makes folks uneasy as well as it as it should but when you think about it recalls show that regulations are working and if you had let’s say an unregulated egg Market or an unregulated Meat Market you would never know what was out there that was contaminated or whatever that’s why you have recalls all over the place of all USDA inspected products there are recalls everywhere that’s what regulation does it allows you to have a safe Supply if it’s not safe they’re going to pull it and so like you know if in Kansas we’ve got 100% unregulated Market we don’t know what products are out there what they’re contaminated with what what it’s doing to people and so it’s the data that you have that makes you make better decisions more informed decisions and from a public health standpoint yeah like we need to be educating people and the money that we could get from hundreds of millions of dollars of cannabis tax revenue hey that could go towards some education and prevention for Youth and all that stuff I mean that’s it’s it we’re seeing it so yeah yeah so it’s the other thing that this brings out is something you just said like the regulations we’ve gotten from Colorado and other states like you know one of the things that I love about hemp is has sort of decimated a lot of the nanny state regulations that I feel like we have like there’s some good regulations for sure but we have like some Nanny state regulations like for example like purchase limits like why am I limited to how much I can buy I I should like the first time I ever went to Colorado I was like I want that I want an ounce of that an ounce of that a couple candy bars and they’re like whoa whoa whoa you’re already passed your limit I’m like what the [ __ ] are you talking about limit I thought this was legal so I love that about hemp no purchase or possession limit in theory right cuz it’s all legal um no dosage caps look I’m all for accurate labeling um but like I’m actually I’ve been sipping on these sodas that are also from that same River Bluff uh company and these are 50 milligrams of THC per can which is a good dose for a lot of people like for myself it’s even a good dose for myself i’ I’ve got a pretty high tolerance this is a good you know um product and it’s so cool that if they wanted to go further they could like they sell a mixer actually they do they sell a mixer it’s like 750 milligrams now obviously you don’t drink the whole thing you m you mix it into several drinks it’s like a vodka or a moonshine right um and that’s what I I there’s things like that and that’s why I ask the question like what does strict regulation mean because yeah I’m down with like a chain of custody things so that you can do recalls whether you want to call it seed of sale or like you said it sounds like some of those things yeah right yeah just some way to have some accountability um yeah it just uh I guess my final thought on this is like in so many ways like it seems like hemp um has you know been a real conversation starter to say the least it’s been a divisive topic I think in the Cannabis Community um but it’s crazy how like the my whole angle on it has always been like it’s just flip the script on all these state-based programs that like I feel I feel haven’t gone far enough in terms of decriminalization but also just like consumer Freedom you know what I mean like in terms of like I say buying in bulk and stuff like that and it doesn’t sound like those things would be precluded uh from a from that middle ground there right like strict regulation doesn’t mean I guess that’s what I’m asking it doesn’t mean those silly regul right like we would still be able to buy like with alcohol and cigarettes there’s nothing stopping me from just buying as much as I want and that [ __ ] will kill me you know right right yes yeah no that’s I I agree I mean there and those are those are the types of like sticking points like policy points that would have to be ironed out to like yeah decide hey is this a strict regulation or is that maybe a little bit overboard or yeah that’s this those are the those are the conversations that Regulators have to have and and we are seeing a lot of experiments all of it is an experiment yeah different states and uh Missouri actually just they just I think enacted their new packaging requirements for cannabis so I mean things are always evolving um but they’re they are very they’re getting very political because we’re getting into election season and you know it’s people they want to be remembered for what they think are the right things but uh yeah it’s going to be fascinating to to watch what happens in Kansas now just as it heads up um there is going to be an inter room Committee in October and I and I believe in November for Kansas and they’re going to be talking about uh CBD and hemp specific uh product laws as well as um looking into research only for veteran friends and end of life patience so uh if they were to do something like that it they would be the first in the nation to do so so we’re we’re pretty sure they’re not going to but yeah ideally like if you um really quick I want to ask you about Kansas but before I forget you just made since we were talking about possession limits it is sort of notable like I am uh I’ve been kind of going back and forth with some people uh from Florida or just invested in Florida on Amendment Three which would legalize cannabis or at least you know tax and regulate it in Florida um I do think it’s notable to mention that the possession limit there would be three ounces which is I mean I actually saw it on a an ad that a sheriff made against amendment three he was like Florida’s gonna have the biggest possession limit in the state I’m like go Florida you know I’m like that’s cool that’s actually cool there you go that’s kind of one thing a minute three has going for it you know you can’t homow but at least you can have a lot it’s kind of cool um anyways though just wanted to get that off my chest back to um it’s good uh yeah because it’s a Southern state you know it’s kind of cool to see like okay a Southern state is like going pretty liberal with their possession limit like let’s go then we can point we can as Illinois we could point to Florida and be like what the [ __ ] are we doing how is Florida allowing people to have you know oh man we’ve done that here in Kansas so like uh let’s see four or five years ago they try they they tried to say oh we’re gonna look at an the Ohio model and it had just come out because that was a monopoly and they you know it was very controlled it was it was strictly regulated it was over regulated right and they um yeah and so in in between that time that they legalized for medical they’ve now expanded that program and now they have adult use and it’s like we still don’t even have decriminalization in Kansas yeah that’s uh that’s crazy so like with Kansas like ideally what would you what would you want to see like like would it be okay if just everything that you see sold now had to pass some sort of testing would that’ be all right so I I think that’s what uh the I I was going to eventually get to that but yeah the the retail ERS the hemp retailers small businesses um yeah liquor stores gas stations they’re all wanting parameters they’ve been saying forever that well five years that they need a framework to be operating under they’ve been saying all along hey we would like to have a license that we can you know get yearly or by anually whatever uh two every two three years and it just protects them that they can sell these products legally and that yeah there may be some restrictions uh over 18 or over 21 something like that but these are we’re now finding out that these are the same things that the kbi officers that are now forced to raid these businesses and confiscate their products and try to prove that they’re illegal or not they they’re saying the same thing these deputies uh are these narcotics officers are talking with businesses saying well is we just wish that there was some regulations uh whether there’s some license or you know whatever they need there is a disconnect between those deputies and the lobbyists who are talking and influencing lawmakers in our state house because all the staunch prohibitionists are the ones who are being listened to in the capital and they are considered the drug experts but they’re not drug policy experts and we can’t keep doing what we’re doing yeah well well said well said yeah and that’s the way I look at it it’s like look honestly Delta 8 uh from my research was discovered alongside CBD and THC by Roger Adams a professor at chemistry at the University of Illinois students at the University of Illinois might recognize his name because there’s a a building at the University of Illinois that bears his name um Delta 8 was discovered and like 19 1940 uh alongside like I say CBD and THC they synthesized it um which is kind of cool the first synthesis of of that according to my research and folks Google it Roger Adams like I said you’ll find a few different articles and um so I bring it up because it’s like I you know I’ve heard that actually Delta 8 itself has actually a relatively proven fine safety uh what’s the word I’m looking for like it’s not profile safy profile you know yeah as far we if we’re talking just Delta 8 I think your point is that it’s being synthesized and there’s these Downstream yeah chemical and that’s where I’m like okay let’s test it because the first place I tried Delta 8 was in an Illinois dispensary like it they had to I’ve got a picture actually on my Twitter where it’s you know got the seed to sale label on it it’s a delta8 product you got to imagine that they synthesized it but it passed testing I guess and and that’s just I mean when when I say like synthesize and a lot of people will take issue with that that term too because oh it’s not synthetic and well okay but it it does go through a synthesization process which means I mean by that I’m just saying there is an adulteration process there is chemistry that is applied whether it be through a solvent a process of mechanical process of some kind but more often than not what we found is that CBD and biomass from hemp that’s what it it originated as like this is It’s a CBD but then that molecule is transition to Delta a by you know this process and it does in involve solvents and so that’s why we’re saying okay but if you’re going to mass-produce these things if this is going to be commercially available yeah let’s just say that there needs to be label requirements and testing regimens and protocol for quality and all that kind of stuff that’s the bottom line yeah because I the way I look at that or look at this subject and then I want to pass it back over to you because uh to you know give you some space uh if you had any other bases you wanted to cover but there’s this really convincing speech and I’ve had this attorney on my show I’ve even aired the speech on my show I’ll try to look if people want to check it out to give you the episode number uh his name name is Rod kite are you familiar with him I think I may have heard the the name before yeah yeah so he gave this speech it’s an episode 84 of my EP of my podcast if people want to check it out um just go to the co memo.com episode 84 with Rod kite he’s also on episode 76 like he sat down with me but episode 84 is his speech that I think is really uh convincing and he talks about a new vision for cannabis reform and he basically talks and covers a lot of the bases we’ve covered today he has this like three-pillar approach which is uh to to hemp which is ageg gating you know keeping minor access so obviously as you said there’s a debate what is a minor is it 1821 you know let people figure that out I like Jesse Ventura’s uh point on that but uh I’m not sure if you’re familiar but he’s like are you a man at 18 if you can go to war or are you a man at 21 you know whatever pick a choice uh but ageg gating um labeling and uh testing of course right so other than that it’s like that’s all we need to do and basically the case that he makes is that if you read the farm bill and you look at the definition of hemp and you you so you scroll all the way to the end of the farm bill they descheduled cannabis and I know this is the big debate that everybody you know kind of gets frivolous about online um maybe that’s not the right word they get heated about uh but I think it’s an interesting case and it’s like as you’ve said and as he said in his speech like if we address those reasonable things it seems like that’s that we’ve legalized cannabis I will actually add though and I want to pitch it over to you for thoughts and again to give you the space just if you had other bases to cover I want to add like a principle that I’ve learned through the parabola Center which I actually think um there should be some license caps and I do not mean capping the number of licenses I mean capping the number in which any entity May occupy in the market now that’s hard to do I will just say but I believe in that concept it’s a concept that Illinois has um I just candidly it’s like I don’t know how you enforce that um but I like the idea of making it so that you know no one operator gets larger than any other that would be like my fourth addition to hemp regulation if I was going to say anything there should be some control in the market share wanted to pass it over to you for thoughts and yeah any of other bases no that’s fair um and I I would i’ probably agree with that as well just because um of what we know with the past and the data that I’ve uncovered that showed Eli Lily and deonco which are obviously now huge major players worldwide they tried to Corner the market they they I mean they’re point blank like we’ve got the the data now that shows they oversaw and funded research that sought to eradicate what they thought was marijuana and I don’t know if they didn’t think people were going to find out about that or what but it was intentionally hidden this information I shared with you you’re not going to find it on the Internet it’s not open access I literally had to go into vaults at Kate and scan it in so I have the first digitized copies of this information and so so what that what that means is that there has been in the past there always was influence and interest in cannabis and so people want to say oh big farmer is GNA grab a hold of it big far big farm has been involved with it from the beginning whether we want to acknowledge that or not but but the reality is there are ways of Now setting forth regulations that prevent Market capture that prevent corporate exclusive it and and monopolies and and that’s why I also agree with uh the stance that Parabola has taken that others have taken with the the notion of this has to be Equitable we need to have people who are involved with this who uh know the plant who have experience with the plant and know what they’re doing but also if we’re going to mass-produce this yeah there has to be some kind of reg regimen requirements and and things like that just because that’s that’s what we do um for public health and safety so uh you no and and as far as you know other things I don’t I don’t really have anything else right off the bat but uh I’m always happy to come back and maybe give you an update of how things are going in Kansas or yeah whatever so um again I I I greatly appreciate it I’ll follow up with this PowerPoint that I that I’ve got and you know if you want the full text Publications that I that I uncovered I’m happy to send them to you they’re they’re in PDF form so it’ll be in like two email probably two emails because they’re they’re pretty large but yeah I mean if it’s something I can put in the show notes uh definitely we can at least try you know I’ll try to throw them in there so send my way dude and very good well keep up the great work you know giving giving people a voice and like being able to just talk about these things but just having a candid sort of take on on this stuff is always good we always have you know people get stuffy and you know in their suits and MSO this and MSO that and all that stuff like it’s you know it’s it is a fascinating uh world that is developing in cannabis and and hemp so just along for the ride yeah well hey anytime you want to come on let me know um if you’re ever in Illinois let me know but if you do like reach out the first thing you need to say is Cole we’re not in Kansas anymore okay that’s so stupid I’m sorry but I’ve been waiting all all episode to try to work that in somehow so heck yeah um well cool no jokes aside seriously reach out if you ever have any updates for me I’m sure if I hear anything about uh Kansas that I’ll think of you and reach out to you for sure but you know if anything comes up with you and your research or whatever I just want to say thank you for uh you know putting this together and presenting it to to many people not only just myself but you said you been doing it with different crowds you know I’m sure sometimes this can feel thankless I hope it doesn’t for you but I just wanted to make sure to thank you for doing what you’re doing to advance the cause to fight the good fight as they say Kelly seriously like keep doing what you’re doing in Kansas and one of these days it will be the free free state it will no I I appreciate that I really do um it’s it’s been an honor really to work with these people I’ve I’m standing on the shoulders the Giants cuz like people have come before me and they didn’t make it and we’ve had to move a lot of families out of state to get therapy and um you know this is It’s a labor of love uh so yeah it means a lot and um I I now have the pleasure of working with Barry Grisham who was the Attorney General during the Obama Administration who passed the cold memo so very cool the past couple of cannabis organizations that I’ve I’ve been working with he’s he’s been a part of so it’s it’s been it’s been pretty neat and uh yeah I I again I appreciate it and I’ll be in touch absolutely well folks I hope you found as much value in this episode and this conversation as I did um Cy like I said just reach out anytime and uh folks I’ll have the uh materials and the show notes including a link so that you can connect with Kelly and uh yeah again take it and run with it folks uh that’s that’s the whole idea here so this is awesome knowledge that we just dropped and I just wanted to thank you again Kelly for doing it um folks we’ll see you on the next episode take care bye
The Cole Memo 
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