The Cole Memo

In this episode, I sit down with TheDankInformer, a person I met on X (formerly Twitter). We discuss the topic of hemp regulation. I was under the impression that there might be a lot of disagreement during this conversation, but we seemed to agree on more than we disagreed on.

• Watch the episode on Patreon here
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• Stream the episode on Spotify here
• Stream the episode on Apple Podcast here
• Stream the episode on X here

Links mentioned during show

• Follow TheDankInformer on Twitter
• Speech by Rod Kight
• Episode of The Dales Report that I mentioned
• I mistakenly mentioned that I heard TheDankInformer on the Dales Report. I got this wrong: I heard TheDankInformer recapping the episode of The Dales Report in this Twitter space.

The auto-generated transcript is available below.

hello and welcome in this episode of the Cole memo I’m sitting down with the danken former really quick before I send
you into the episode I wanted to play you something that I cited on the show and I really should have just played
what I was citing and so I’m going to take this opportunity to play it now so what let’s watch this clip and I’ll send
you into the episode I will have this clip Linked In the show notes for this episode of the podcast you may be aware
that much of the caffeine we consume in the United States and products such as sodas and energy drinks is not from the
Coffee Bean but rather is synthetically manufactured in China in mostly
unregulated circumstances using dangerous chemicals but you don’t see breathless media reports about that or
passionate legislators denouncing it so that is not the part I cited I think
this is the part that I cited let’s watch the video and as for the argument that the farm bill did not intend to
legalize intoxicating hemp this claim is totally unsubstantiated and from a legal standpoint it’s irrelevant since the
intent of a lawmaking body comes into play only if the statute is ambiguous the farm bill is anything but its
definition of hemp is plain and clear in fact if Congress only intended for hemp to be used for industrial purposes then
why did it drop the term industrial from the name in 2018 and why does the definition use a Litany of Highly
specific scientific terms regarding compounds including one that cause intoxication that we
ingest and what about those marijuana companies that are complaining about unfair competition they have the same
right to enter the hemp sector as anyone in this room so I am about to play a
clip from Rod kite’s speech that I think we should all agree on with regard to
the approach to regulating him and then I’ll send you into the episode with the
Dank Ander so let’s turn now to the three pillars of approach to HP regulation as its name suggests this
model focuses on three distinct zones of Regulation one controlling access by miners two quality control and three
proper labeling and marketing you’ll notice that none of the three pillars addresses intoxication and this is
because attempting to regulate hemp products based on the capacity to intoxicate is the wrong approach it’s a
classic Fool’s errand to begin it’s impossible to define intoxication in a way that’s workable from illegal or
regulatory standpoint I mean what does it mean to be intoxicated we all sort of know right but attempting to actually
Define it is necessarily impossible and in doing so creates all sorts of unintended consequences focusing on
intoxication is in fact what perpetuates the Reaper Madness hysteria of the 20th
century it promotes a phobia of cannabis intoxication is somehow different in kind or form and more dangerous even
than intoxication by alcohol or caffeine or tobacco or sugar or any number of commonly used medications
from a legal and a policy standpoint attempting to eliminate or control intoxication by redefining hemp or
prohibiting an entire class of hemp products or by limiting the allow of milligrams of THC and all other
compounds is unworkable and it amounts to a nanny State method of addressing an issue that should instead be based on an
adult’s personal preference so rather than regulating hemp and its products on intoxication hemp regulation should be
focused on the three zones that I mentioned earlier controlling access by miners quality control and proper
labeling and marketing and as you’ll see it addresses the intoxication issue without having to focus on it or even to
Define it pillar one we should strictly control access by miners to hemp products now should the age be 18 or
should it be 21 should a minor be able to obtain hemp products with parental consent what are the best ageg gating
practices these are all good questions these are the types of questions that are appropriate for us as an industry
and as a society to debate and eventually resolve through legislative and Regulatory actions but the thing
that we can all agree on is that miners should not have unfettered access to hemp products you might ask but what
about non- intoxicating hemp products they should also be subject to ageg gating this is an across theboard issue
to begin with we do not yet have sufficient information about any specific canabo to know how it develops
how it affects developing brains the fact that a canabo may or may not be intoxicating might or might not have any
relevance to its effect on developing brains we simply don’t have that information yet and also distinguishing
between based on intoxication drags us right back into the Meer of Regulation based on intoxication rather than the
more straightforward approach that I’m proposing so if you believe that miners should be able to access hemp products with parental consent something that I
personally believe in then that’s something that we can address in regulations but all hemp products should be subject to age gating because
ultimately if a company’s profitability in market share is based on selling hemp
products to miners well then maybe that company should rethink its Market plan aside from hemp seed and hemp seed oil
all hemp products that people ingest or inhale should be subject to ageg gating it just makes sense pillar two we should
require quality control for production and manufacturing of hemp and hemp products by this I mean manufacturers
should have to comply with GMP and other objective quality standards experts are currently drawing up discussing and
promoting these types of standards and contrary to shr news reports many of the best hemp companies in the world
including people who represent those companies here today um are regulating themselves in this way and already
meeting objective quality standards the specific standards we eventually land on and Implement are up for discussion of
course but the need for objective quality standards is non-negotiable this will ensure that
products do not contain contaminants that they’re consistent in their ingredients and formulations and most
importantly that they’re safe objective quality standards will also help the industry overcome its reputation for
promoting so-called synthetic products so for example delta8 THC has been studied clinically since the 1980s the
primary issue with delta8 is not delta8 itself or even the fact that it’s created synthetically from CBD as I
mentioned earlier most of the caffeine we ingest is created synthetically rather the issue is that
many Delta eight products on the market were not properly manufactured leaving behind an array of other compounds and
solvents in the final products and similarly there are no overarching regulations about hemp production with
respect to the use of pesticides fertilizers and the presence of mold mildew mot toxins Etc in the flowers and
biomass objective production and Manufacturing regulations focused on consumer safety will ensure that no one
ever has to worry about their hemp products being contaminated just as we don’t have to worry right now about
other products that we commonly consume being contaminated pillar three we should require informative appropriate
and standardized labeling and marketing of hemp products this will ensure that consumers are adequately informed about
the products they’re purchasing and using consumers should know exactly what ingredients are in a product and also
the concentrations of those ingredients additionally consumers should know if a product will likely cause impairment and or fail a drug test by the way this is
where the issue of intoxication is properly addressed not in prohibitions not in milligram Caps or convoluted
definitions but rather via a straightforward disclosure so that consumers are properly and adequately
informed about what they choose to consume the same is true for advertising and marketing and in a similar vein
individual states should not control or regulate labeling and marketing this is
an important point that often gets lost in the state’s rights and let the states decide arguments that we often hear from
Cannabis industry Advocates the hemp industry deserves National objective
standards and labeling regulation just like every other consumer product the current situation where hemp companies
must create compliant labels for every single state and where states are beginning to create their own State
specific quality standards is inefficient unnecessary and fails to address the fact that well unlike the
marijuana industry the hemp industry operates on a national scale the three-pillar approach allows adults to
make an informed decision about the products they choose to purchase and consume while limiting access by Miners
and sidest stepping the impossible task of defining and regulating products based on their potential to cause
intoxication to use an alcohol comparison an adult can purchase a low alcohol session beer a nice bottle of
wine or a handle of hard liquor the choice of potency is left up to the adult consumer who can rest assured that
the products are properly manufactured and that the label will Pro will provide sufficient information about the alcohol
content and other ingredients to help her make an informed decision about what to purchase and how much to consume of
course alcohol causes both intoxication and a host of other health problems and the fact that it’s lawfully and widely
available across many distribution platforms including convenience stores while hemp produ are being decried as a
Public Health crisis is frankly insane so I will have that full speech Linked
In the podcast description some of those things that were said or things that you know the danin former agreed with me on
and I think we actually agree agreed on a lot of different um points the reason
I am obsessed with this topic is because like it or not wherever you stand on the
topic of hemp I have found reputable hemp companies several that are able to
provide me their products in ways that well let’s just put it this way hemp has
given me more access to the cannabis plant as a consumer than I’ve ever had
via any state-based program I can get seeds products including beverages ice
cream flour Edibles whatever I [ _ ] want delivered straight to my door if that’s not legalization I don’t know it is obviously it’s not perfect obviously we need to figure it out but the answer folks is not license limitations or relying I think on state-based cannabis regulations sure they’re a good start but they definitely aren’t perfect either but we’ll get into all that and so much more with the Dank Informer check out the show notes folks for links to like I said that that speech and to connect with the Dank Ander I hope you enjoy this episode of the Cole [Music] memo today is June 18th 2024 and I’m sitting down with the dankin forer do you have a name I can call you other than the dankin former or do you prefer danken former no I stay Anonymous fair enough fair enough you uh you did mention that you still live in a Prohibition State I’ll keep it at that to to further sanctify your an anonymity but I understand why you might want to be anonymous today given that you’re not from a legal state right that and just exposing some of the Bad actors in this industry um I would rather do that from the curtain of anonymity gotcha gotcha well hey totally totally understand that thank you for joining me today I just wanted to say for folks that are tuning in once again we’re sitting down with the Dank Informer you can follow them on Twitter I’m displaying their Twitter uh page right now I’ll have that link in the show notes and folks you’re tuned in to the Cole memo I’m your host Cole Preston every episode is released in audio video and transcript format to find the transcript audio or video version of any episode please refer to the description of the episode that you’re listening to now within that description you can find a link that will take you to our website which will display the transcript for this episode and the platforms where you can find this episode in audio or video formats if you’re unable to locate the episode description on whichever platform you’re listening from I get it simply take note of the episode number and then just visit the memo.com from there you can use our search functionality in the top right hand corner to find the corresponding episode and then you’ll be able to access the audio video and transcript version of that episode you might also find any links that we reference during the episode so that you might be able to do your own research if you’re not listening to this episode of the Cole memo on patreon you’re listening to this episode a little bit later than our patrons to become a patron go to the memo.com patreon it’s a great way to support our show another way to support our show is at the memo.com support but one of the best ways to support our show is free just subscribe to the show follow it leave a positive review share it with your friends favorite the episode tell your grandma about it whatever once again today’s June 18th just a little bit past 400 p.m. here in Illinois and I’m sitting down with the Dank and forer dude how long have you been smoking weed probably freshman year of college about about 15 years 15 years so we’re just about neck and neck we’ve been sounds like we started smoking around the same time uh all those years ago so look at us cannabis veterans um so one of our conversation started online we’ve we’ve interacted a few different times but I recently shared this video I thought for the beginning of the podcast why don’t we just watch the video I can share your response and then we can go from there does that sound good sure yep cool all right well I’m about to share for our listening audience I’m about to share a clip from a recent Joe Rogan Experience episode featuring Freeway Rick Ross let’s play the clip like there’s like I said that Delta 9 stuff that’s legal I think in every state totally totally we know some people some states B we weed States abandon it oh really because it’s taking away tax dollars oh no so we so weed states are Banning Delta 9 TC that is hilarious it goes against marijuana oh my God that’s taking away marijuana sales spy versus spy dog because they can’t tax you know they can’t tax CBD uh well CBD is different we’re talking about Delta 9 THC but CBD it’s a derivative you know it’s all part of the same you know they fall under the same category really yeah interesting they’re just a little different you know yeah well California is trying to make it illegal right now cuz it’s taking away their tax dollar that is so stupid that’s so stupid it hurts my feelings cuz they sell it in every every smoke shot got CD you know they try to make it illegal yeah oh my God that’s so dumb that’s so dumb that is so dumbb of states did that was the clip um your response I’m about to show it and then I’m also just about to give you the space uh to talk about it um you said Joe Rogan is dumb as [ _ ] also doesn’t get the majority of H sold by
CBD stores isn’t even CBD surface level research by Joe’s team again it’s
synthetic canab cannabinoids and regular weed under the thca hemp label I wanted
to just agree with you before I turn the space over to you that I wouldn’t even say I I feel like you’re giving them too
much credit here I don’t think Joe Rogan first of all has a team or does any
research so but your space it’s like what who’s the guest on that that he’s
interviewing he Freeway Rick Ross yeah what he basically said about you know CBD and DHT are the same thing complete
you know bad information there on his part so hemp hemp on its own is really
just a it’s it’s a strain of the Cannabis sativa plant so it’s just a a marijuana
plant that is high CBG low THD right and so it’s kind of like you know if you
were to find 50 random seeds of weed and you planted them and you got 50 strains and you you know some of these TRS are
going to vary in concentrations of cannabinoids CHC CBD and whatever other cannaboids and so hemp is just really it
was supposed to be legalized as a um industrial crop right so not really
extracting the canabo out of the plant but you know we can get into that conversation later but basically the
gist of it basically what Joe Rogan was saying and his and his guest is like oh they’re banning Delta 9 THC because it’s
impacting the tax revenue yeah to an extent that’s true um but to say that CBD and T are the same thing you know
that’s where the confusion really is you know I’ve been to a couple of stores here that supposedly sell CBD like a
vape and smoke shop I mean there were just jars of nuggets that you could buy allart from the vape shop and um I asked
the guy do you guys have any CBD and he said no I was like what the [ _ ] right so it’s like it’s like you advertise that you sell CBD in your vape and smoke shop but it’s all just um hemp basically uh marijuana sold under the hemp label so and you see that a lot so a lot of people would advertise you know oh we are a CBD store but really just as just a veil to not attract attention to that to that business that they’re selling they’re selling cannabis under the um the hemp label because at the end of the day hemp is cannabis I mean it’s the same plant it’s just it’s supposed to be a strain that produces less PhD uh you know by the hemp Farm Bill the way it’s written right so if you if I took two two cannabis plants and one of them had low THC one of them had high THC the one with the under 3% THC would be like late classified as hemp but it’s the same plan yeah um so there’s a lot of confusion in regards to like you know you see all these people uh whenever you see a a bill in the in the state legislature that bans like uh synthetic can canono like delta8 or like other chemically derived cannabinoids like Delta 10 Delta 11 THC or whatever all these people come out of the woodwork and like you know they’re banning CBD and like they’re not Banning CBD guys they’re banning you converting CBD in the lab to all these like uh unnatural cannaboids that are not found in the plant and that the the reason that’s happened is because the farm bill basically said you cannot sell phc that’s uh you know more than .3% by dry weight uh that’s Delta 9C right but the farm bill also said any other cannabinoid whether it’s found naturally or not is also legal so these guys just kind of went ham with that loophole and basically said well [ _ ] we
can take CBD because we got all these hemp plant that make a [ _ ] ton of CBD and we don’t know what to do with it we can take all that CBD and chemically you know there’s just a chemical process like a chemical reaction process that you can convert that CBD to like Delta 8 THC Delta 11 THC Delta uh like 10 THC and all these other cannabinoids that are not necessarily found in the plant uh but they still get you high and so they started basically working around that Delta 9 loophole because they can’t sell Delta 9 they started chemically synthesizing these other THC isomers from CBD and basically pumping those out in like Vapes and Edibles um and that’s where like the line gets blurry right because the industry is so unregulated you end up with a bunch of um amateur chemists that are doing this stuff so they’re taking all the CBD you know cooking it up in the stove top based on some Reddit or YouTube article they found on how to chemically extract that those cannaboids or how to convert the CBD to those cannaboids and then you know they extracted and they put it in these Vapes now the dangers there are anytime you do a chemical reaction like that and I’m kind of paraphrasing Adam from cantrip um you know you you get all these byproducts you get all these chemical byproducts that no one’s testing for like there’s no there’s no regulations in this industry which is why if you look at any not any but the majority I’ll say like 95% plus hemp derived products if you look at their certificate of analysis you know how when you go to the website there’s like a labs and coa’s link if you look at those certificates of analysis the only thing they test for is the cannaboid content they don’t test for pesticides they don’t test for like heavy metals they don’t test for like bacteria or any any any of these safety tests to ensure like product is safe for for consumption but even if you did test for all those you still might have chemical impurities that are not you know something that you would regularly test in in in a regular cannabis product because State like for example licensed dispensary by a state like in Florida or New Jersey or Maryland they don’t sell this chemical stuff like they don’t sell this chemical chemically drived stuff so they don’t have they wouldn’t be testing for like random chemicals found in the product right um but you find those impurities in the chemically derived products from the hemp industry so there’s just really no telling what you’re consuming because it’s so unregulated yeah and I I mean I did want to just say to your last point that and I I I wanted to save the the synthetic cannaboids for a moment so maybe we can return to that top yeah let’s return to the topic of synthetic can avonoids because I think that’s the one where we’re like very much on the same very much on the same page I wanted to start with a point that you started with that I think is good for the foundation of this conversation typically when people think of hemp they think of what I’m about to show and this is from an old video from the government that shows a long fibrous plant that just to get to Brass brass tax is not usually used for consumption and this is often times people’s argument against what’s going on with the farm bill as of today they say you know this was never the intent uh th this was all about the industrial use of of hemp and this is what we would typically consider to be hemp one thing I just wanted to say and it’s not like I’m coming from I want to be very clear that I learned this from somebody smarter than me so don’t take this as me like trying to to correct you by any means you may actually already be aware of this but just for my listeners I think the correct word to use isn’t strain so you’re saying like hemp is a different strain of cannabis I think the the right word to use is either cultivar or variety again I’m not smart enough to tell you which one but it’s either cultivar variety and it’s the idea that I know you’re not from Illinois but in most of Illinois if you came to Illinois and just tried to pull some corn out of the field you’d be really really disappointed if you tried to boil and eat that corn because guess what it’s not sweet corn buddy even though it looks just like sweet corn right so you get the point I’m trying to make where it’s like I think we’re in agreement there strains are the word strain is a synonymous to ctiv I figured I figured yeah we were right I figured you were using that word because it’s one we’re all familiar with and everything else but I just wanted to point it out um because it actually enhances the point that that you were making which is that this is the same plant cannabis but we’ve created two legal definitions and I argue arbitrary legal definitions hemp and marijuana which are both cannabis so you you know you actually just said the distinction between hemp it’s that 3% THC one of the points I wanted to ask about and then maybe this can transition us into that conversation about synthetic cannabinoids is you know many people will say this this wasn’t the intent of the law and I actually I’ll give you this I tend to agree that Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump you know they weren’t saying hey let’s legalize this so that people can buy gummies and smoke shops now right or thca flower that’s not what was going on however I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that there were lobbyists in the room that knew what was going on because there is a clear difference between the 2014 farm bill and the 2018 farm bill and that is the 20 14 farm bill in reference to hemp it was called the industrial hemp act and none of these terms that you referenced earlier were found in the 2014 Bill the terms about I think the 3% THC was in it but there wasn’t this idea of derivatives and extracts and isomer and salts of isomer and all those other words that are in it those were all added in 2018 and my question to you before we go any further is if not like I can’t think of an IND like I’m not saying that I prefer to consume those extracts or Delta eight or Delta 10 or Delta a XYZ right I don’t want to consume those but I can’t help but wonder when people say this wasn’t an intent of the law why else were derivatives extracts isomers salts of isomers and things that we would consume be added to the bill that’s my question no they weren’t explicitly added I think the language basically just said like anything that’s naturally or not naturally found is the canabo is like legal which I mean I’ll have to go back and look at the actual bill like language but I I guess to kind of unravel that a little bit further it’s like even if the original intent of the bill was not to allow those synthetic cannabinoids to be to be legalized um one has to wonder you know it’s been six years almost since that bill past and obviously this has been going on for a while and those those loopholes in the farm bill were were not addressed in the last five or six years so so whether the original intent was was there or not to to allow like the the extraction of these cannaboids by the hemp industry you know they let it go on for five or six years so why haven’t they banned or closed that loophole and you see you know if you look at the legislature where you have like the Miller amendment that recently tried to ban um those canabo right in the farm bill so if you look at that that video from Congress I mean you have uh representatives in the house that are basically saying I’m not for legalizing cannabis but you know the constituents in my district have made a business out of selling cannabis under the hemp label so I’m not going to vote to ban these things and it’s like how does that make any sense right well and I think that maybe leads us to this next point where it’s like I think we do strongly agree on the fact that these uh a lot of times they call them gas station products and what’s funny is I’m about to show a video very similar to some of the content I’ve seen you post where you kind of go into these stores and and look at what they have in here and they’ve got products that I’ve never even heard of on the shelves and and I guess my thing maybe this is a good segue to the synthetic conversation and then we can end up with the you know natural weed with just a hemp sticker on it I you know where the first place I ever tried Delta eight was in a licensed Illinois cannabis dispensary yeah I mean that’s interesting I mean look there’s there’s a way to like extract these canabo or synthesiz him um if you’re like an actual chemist and you know what you’re doing but whether like whether those things should be legal or not that’s a separate story I think I think the um consensus is that like in an unregulated industry Street you’re going to get a lot of these people that are just not really trained chemists that potentially could create harm from products right right and I guess my question is and maybe this can segue us to it’s still on this topic here I’m displaying look at this Delta 10 this isn’t a gas station Delta 10 which I’ve never even heard of uh I think there’s other Deltas too Delta 8 there’s the Delta 9 THC by herb which as as you’ve pointed out seems to be partnered with um GTI yeah I’m not sure I never got I never got an answer on that but yeah and I I I know somebody that actually asked herb themselves and they weren’t able to get a very clear answer out of it either so that it’s a little weird there um but uh just wanted to to play that really quick and I guess my question is and I’ll pull up the Ronda santis uh veto but what did you think about the The veto especially in the context of synthetic cannabinoids I mean my my stance is that I think anything that’s chemically derived should be banned I mean there’s there’s hemp products they are natural CBD in Delta 9 THC and so if you think about that whole 3% cap it basically makes it a lot harder to legally make a Delta 9 uh THC product product from the hemp industry because you’d have to get like a lot of biomass and what I mean by that is you have to get like 30 plants of low THC to like extract enough THC to make uh like like some gummies right whereas if you had like a high THC cannabis plant you know it would take like one plant to make a meaning meaningful amount of of extract right but from the hemp industry you got to get like a lot more biomass because it’s it’s captive 3% so the the cultivar of cannabis you’re growing is a lot Low T lot lower THC so basically it kind of just restricts them from being able to access those like larger amount of Delta 9 THC um but there are legit products in the hemp industry that contain Delta 9 THC and CBD that are naturally extracted canabo from the hemp plant um right which I use myself because I live in a state that does not have a legal cannabis program so I’m I’m I’ve been a hemp industry consumer for probably five years or so and I’ve seen the evolution of that industry and we can go into that in a second if you want but yeah that’ll be kind of my closing Point as we’ll be have a be able to have a conversation about how this has affected us and helped us as consumers um but yeah on the point I’ve seen you tweet about it and I’ve seen many people tweet about this Ron Dan santis veto and and specifically people usually a their concerns they say hey Dan santis is basically endorsing the sale of these synthetic cannabinoids with this veto I guess my thing is this last page here I feel like completely puts to rest that argument but I’m just curious what say you well that there was a a whole leak right from the the santis campaign that said [Music] um that he was doing this to g game favor with the hemp industry hoping they would bankor some campaign campaign funding to fight like the amendment three and the abortion on the ballot in November um you know whether that’s true or not again we’re talking about leaks sure but but to the point as far as the santis on cannabis and what his stance is I I just you know the guy kind of just talks from both sides of his mouth I feel like sometimes because from what I understand he was the one that allowed the smokable format right of flower to be approved or he pushed for that to be approved as part of the medical program expansion in Florida and yet he comes out and says you know things like I don’t like the smell of marijuana and all these things so it’s kind of like well dude you’re the I thought you were the one that pushed through the the medical approval of the of the flower format in in the Florida program and yet you’re saying you don’t like the smell in the streets but then now you’re saying you you you’re going to veto the the hemp bill so it’s just it’s kind of mixed signals yeah and I guess my thing like to your point yes he definitely has mixed signals on one hand he hates the smell of it on the other hand he allowed for uh smokable cannabis for the first time but I just can’t help but see similarities again acknowledging that he’s speaking outside of both sides of his mouth I can’t help but see the similarities between this statement he made quite a while ago which admittedly he walked back a bit on January 18th 2019 about the Florida cannabis industry he said they created a cartel essentially and he’s talking about I want to open up the market by allowing companies to provide specific services like growing transporting or dispensing does he actually mean that I think we both agree no um but to to hear him say that and then this was in 2019 and then you bring it all the way back to 2024 with this veto of the hemp thing I don’t view it so much as an endorsement of synthetic cannaboids or anything else I view this as an endorsement of an open market approach to cannabis and whether or not he actually means that I think we both agree on who [ _ ] knows but I just feel like these
last things that he’s saying here oddly and this might even go to your point
even more he seems to be quoting Loosely a very well-known hemp attorney I’m
aware of he’s saying look I’m concerned that that he says small businesses are
the Cornerstone of Florida’s economy while the goals are commendable the bill would in fact impose debilitating
regulatory burdens on small businesses and almost certainly failed to achieve its
purposes and he talks about the businesses that have emerged due to the commercial use of hemp and this is the
part I I thought everybody would agree on quality control labeling and marketing and pack paging and retail
sales and this is the main part you know making sure these products are sold behind the counter they operate outside
of proximities of schools and everything else and to address all of the safety concerns they’re labeled packaged and
they’ve got quality control yeah I guess you know it’s just I mean that’s basically like full-blown legalization
which it’s fine but but at the end of the day you know you can’t have a a
state licensed Market that play plays by one set of rules and then you have everybody else selling marijuana under
the hemp label playing by a different set of rules and it’s like you know you both selling the same products you both
sing can avonoids at the end of the day yeah um um so it’s almost like they’ve let
this hemp thing just get too big too fast and now it’s like yes there’s a lot of jobs in that industry yes there’s a
lot of money in that industry and I don’t know if you saw my post you know there was a a kind of like a research AR Co or
white paper that basically uh established or estimated that the hemp industry in 2022 the
cannabinoid industry alone I don’t even think it was talking about thca flower the cannaboid Hem derived cannaboid
industry was about 28.4 billion dollar in 2022 which was estimated to be and
which is larger than all of the state legal programs combined so just imagine how much money
is in that industry um so what what what influence that money
has on on lobbying power and and things like that right yeah and my thing is to
your point I actually agree with you on everybody should play by the same rules
that’s and that’s kind of why I brought up that to santis veto because in Illinois which is where I’m from PE we
basically are having the same conversation right now on one hand cannabis operators are trying to
push for a hemp ban and by ban they mean they just don’t want it if they’re if it’s going to be sold it’s going to be
sold in a dispensary and that’s all good and well because to your point I guess we’re I’m fine with everybody
playing with playing by the same rules complying to the same standards that but that’s everybody agrees on that point it
seems I don’t I’m not aware of anybody that seriously you know is a proficient
business person that wants to last the test of time that says no [ _ ] regulation [ _ ] all of that like it
seems like everybody that does plan to Le to to stand the test of time like folks like Adam Terry are willing to
comply with with whatever regulations people deem is fair and I guess that’s where I get frustrated on this topic
because it’s like it seems like everybody agrees there where we disagree is open
licensing right I mean at the end of the day is kind of like you know you have to have some
Regulatory and safety consumer safety protections because it is a product that’s grown it’s it’s a crop right um
the extracts are done it with like a chemical process you know you’re extracting things with solvents
sometimes so obviously like the the regulations need to be there from a consumer safety perspective now if you
allow hom grow you know you can do whatever the [ _ ] you want in your own house you’re growing your own weed but if you’re commercially engaging in selling cannabis products you have to adhere to some consumer protection and safety laws right right um and so I think that frustration is that you have like these State regulated businesses um selling them publicly traded which full disclosure you know I I’ve invested in a lot of these companies and I live in this weird dichotomy of a world where like I I am a hemp industry consumer because I live in a state where cannabis is not legal but I’m also an investor in a lot of these companies that are publicly traded that operate in states where it’s legal and so you have this weird uh separation of rules where like you know the the guys selling cannabis under the hemp PL um don’t have to adhere to safety standards they don’t have to test the products for pesticide they don’t have to test a product for heavy metals um they can they can ship it across state lines and they can they can accept credit cards but then you have these very regulated pockets in states where cannabis is legal that that have all these burdens on them like they they have to pay the 28 tax they have to like do all this extra testing for Consumer safety uh and they can’t Bank like their employees literally have to get paid in cash right which is like really it’s just this this separation and this Divergence from like common sense and reality where it’s just like so the the cleaner stuff that’s being made by the state legal industry that’s that’s very well tested and whatnot is basically as a those businesses are like have a lot more burdens than the than the people growing hemp who sell the hemp derived products that are not as safe so it’s just this weird this joint of reality basically yeah I guess my thing is like if if all hemp operators were forced to comply with the same testing standards as cannabis operators let’s set aside 28 and the other stuff you mentioned which are very valid points for just a moment let’s just talk about safety and then we can we can bring those points up because I actually have a clip from Charlie backel that that really underscores what you just said all all of the inequities let’s call them between hemp and cannabis let’s just say everybody is required to abide by Florida or Illinois Cannabis Testing standards whichever one you think is best I’ve heard Illinois has the strictest in the nation so we’ll go with that I guess if everybody has to comply by that what’s the problem I don’t think there’s a problem from a consumer safety perspective I mean like I said i’ I’ve had to seek out good companies in the hemp industry so I can buy products because I’ve been burned I mean I’ve I’ve some nasty stuff out there before I really knew what I was consuming in the hemp industry but I’ve had to personally seek out companies that that do things right to get quality products for myself um so I don’t have a problem as long as people like consumer safety’s top of mind um I’m you know my my concern is always like I just want quality cannabis products that are like safe safe and like not full of like some garbage is going to P me right and I think that testing part if we can get everybody to and it seems like even hemp operators that I speak to agree that they’re they’re open to being tested you know um and even some have said taxed at the same rate which is pretty crazy because as you just mentioned the taxes are much higher in many states on these cannabis products than on these hemp products like in Illinois upwards 30% taxes and then as you said they have to deal with worex California it’s like you’re you’re getting $60 worth of product for like probably like bucks oh damn that’s got to hurt the wallet but to your like here’s my question on this like all of those points you actually let’s play the Quick Clip from Charlie backel real quick because it’s gonna really underscore the point that you just made all of the things that hemp can do but cannabis can’t do Charlie backel from uh Cresco Labs that industry can’t possibly compete um with an identical product truly identical being sold at a store that doesn’t have to pay for a state license doesn’t have to comply with state regulatory structures and the cost of those doesn’t have to pay that excise tax can take credit cards can raise Capital can go public on us exchanges doesn’t have 280e one way or another these two things have to be reconciled so it might be uh an incredible opportunity that can’t be ignored might so so those are all the things right that make it really hard to operate as a cannabis industry but I guess my question has always been and I actually just got a package from people that are licensed under the Cannabis regulation and tax act in Illinois they’re a social Equity lensey I’m sure you’ve heard that a lot because it’s a new it’s something that Illinois I feel like really got started in the conversation so this is this product I’m about to show you is made by and I highly recommend you trying it out um it’s made by a social Equity license e it’s a can of him of THC now again these are sorry about my background ruining the can here it’s a River Bluff Collective punch pop you can look them up they have both a cannabis license and a hemp license obviously that’s not anything new as we pointed out at the beginning of the show GTI does it seemingly uh cir Leaf does it uh cookies does it you know all these things but I guess my point is to the complaints that Charlie just laid out and you’ve accurately laid out as well like it does seem like the difference between the Cannabis industry and the hemp industry is that nobody is stopping them from reaping those benefits right like you you this company just got into the hemp industry and they’re financing their uh cannabis uh buildout with their hemp money I think I think the concern is that no one knows what will happen to hemp derived um legislation and how those rules will change so I think you know and and that aside you know if I was you know if I was a a company let’s say operating in Mar land and I had like you know four dispensaries that are State licensed and all of a sudden I started selling the same gummies from the hemp industry in um in a bunch of retail stores or or or vape shops or or smoke shops because they’re because I got a hemp license at the end of the day it’s the exact same product if you look if you look at it molecularly in lab is the same product so how would my my question has always been like if you wear a cannabis State operator it’s licensed in by the state and you have a certain number of licenses for retail how how is that regulator going to look at you as a company if you’re selling the exact same product in another 40 you know hemp stores that are not dispensaries but realistically it’s the same product so so what’s the point of having a dispensary cap if now you can just sell the same products using the hemp derived uh Source THC right so how do you reconcile those discrepancy you’re hitting me right in the heart with that point um and I I kind of don’t take this the wrong way but I’m surprised to hear that point come up from somebody who is an investor I’ll be clear I also invest in some of these companies I don’t have big Investments but I do have Investments and again I’m just kind of surprised to hear because that that is a topic I’m actually extremely passionate about and actually that’s one of my besides synthetic cannabinoids and what could happen I guess with them that that’s one of my only other real concerns with with hemp and it being descheduled is that there’s no real protections against monopolies or oligopolies and in many states well I don’t want to say in many states but at least in Illinois there is this idea that you can only have 10 dispensaries and three cultivation centers now in Florida I think you can have as many dispensaries as you want um you know and I I think in Maryland there are some dispensary caps maybe you you know some others I actually like those types of license caps because it would prevent any one operator from getting larger than another so you’ll never ideally you’ll never have like a Walmart more of like a like a craft brewing experience if you will right you’ve got all these kind of different um options for products with kind of their own brand identity and their own cultivars and it’s preventing kind of like one big company from dominating the entire market right yeah exactly and that’s that’s something that I think absolutely should be addressed if we go forward with hemp and and that’s what I say you know some people say when they’re like oh you know you Banning hemp because you want big marijuana and all these State licensed companies to to dominate the market and it’s like well really big marijuana there’s no such thing I mean the the industry is so fragmented you know every state has different rules you know there’s there’s you know Maryland you can have four retail stores I think New Jersey’s four Illinois is 10 like you said um Florida I think you can have unlimited but they’re about to dull out a bunch more licenses as well you know there’s a good number of operators down in Florida as well uh so every State’s very different they have different caps and to say that like there’s like big marijuana it’s almost like there’s hemp is a bigger industry from a dollar amount perspective so it’s almost like I would say the big hemp Farms have much more influence over lobbying and and legislation because we’ve sat here with like six years of the farm bill loopholes and nothing’s gotten done to close those loopholes yet we have you know representatives in Congress who are outspoken about being anti- you know adult use marijuana or cannabis but support like the hemp industry so you know it’s just it doesn’t add up sometimes it just doesn’t add up yeah yeah I guess my whole thing is with this and the reason if you didn’t notice uh and I’ll be blown about it CU I don’t really care it’s not that I have any issue with you obviously I invited you onto my podcast and we’re having a calm and cool conversation but I I do I did have to mute you for a couple of days on Twitter only because like and this is fine we can disagree and it’s okay I actually do think we agree on this topic I’m about to show you another video that I think is [ _ ] up about what’s going on but you’re just like constantly tweeting
about these synthetic cannabinoids and I’m gonna add another one feel free to [ _ ] share this one brother like I I mean this seriously because like I get the point you’re trying to make like look at this what the [ _ ] you think of this I don’t even know what that is man
and right okay so we’re obviously on the same page that’s [ _ ] up I just the only reason I like get uh I have feelings when I see people like you or others you’re not the only person that like I hesitate to say you’re posting fear-mongering but it feels very close to that with regard to the the synthetic canabo because it’s like I get your point I would never consume those either I don’t know anybody that does frankly like whenever I go to the stores around me and I see those products the one thing I don’t see is anybody actually buying those [ _ ] weird ass product unforunately unfortunately I have
consumed bad Vapes a couple years ago before I knew any better and the reason I started kind of going off on the hemp
industry and if you kind of see I I think I came off wrong in the beginning you know I was kind of casting a wide
net um I was really more concerned with like the synthetic stuff and and the stuff that’s just not natural not so
much like I’ve said previously you know I have no problems with naturally extracted like CBD or THC whether it comes from a h plant or not um but all
these so thco and like hhco are like acetates of of of the tht and hht
cannabinoids and those things basically um have the same effect as Vitamin E
acetate when vaporized so it’s the same thing that would cause like the The Vape
lung epidemic right where you get toxic gas in your lungs that that damages your lungs and those acetates were in fact
sold by a bunch of these hemp companies now they took him off the shelf last year because the DEA came out in
February but they were selling them way past you know February 2023 when the DEA said you know this stuff is schedule one
and it’s not legal and all the research came out kind of late 2022 2023 that
these things are in fact toxic so a lot of these people in the hemp industry are
trying to basically make this thing about you know we sell safe stuff from
Organics CBD and hemp and guys like you’re just synthesizing a bunch of crap
and uh you’re filling these Vapes with God knows what and it turns out a couple of those things were in fact very toxic
right and so that’s that’s kind of what I’m trying to educate consumers about is
that there there is a clear line between good good products from the hemp industry and bad products from from the
hemp industry but a lot of them are full of these synthetic cannaboids like you
know you walk into a store like you said it’s like thcp thc1 THC JD THC like no
one’s ever consumed these things from a cannabis plant right yeah so yeah I mean
my beef is really with these synthetic products because I’ve accidentally consumed them myself and I’ve had some lung complications myself um and I’m
just trying to educate consumers that you know here we have people in this industry that are trying to act like
they’re being this you know persecuted with these hemp band bills but they are in fact some of the people who who
poison potentially consumers right yeah um so I think that’s why I kind of made
a comment to I’m like you know I think it’s time for like the people that do things right in the hemp industry to separate themselves from the people that
do the wrong things in the hemp industry yeah and I agree with that and you know
um I I think you’re making a great Point here and I have admittedly seen you like
walk it back I guess because I I almost saw you give an endorsement of of canant trip and you’re like see this is my
point I want the naturally derived hemp that’s that was your perspective and it’s like okay well I get what you’re
coming from but if if I could just quickly wrap up because I I didn’t want to and you can probably tell by my tone
of voice that I’m not attacking you but where I’m coming from is I feel and I think this is going to hit hit to your
heart as well I feel that what hemp has done like it or not from from the people
that are critics of it it has given me uh more access to the cannabis plant
than any state program has ever afforded to me and if I could just quickly elaborate what I mean by that I love
getting it delivered to my front door that’s amazing why can’t we do that in the state of Illinois it’s crazy that
that’s and I know that that’s a regular I agree I mean I that’s what I said you know USBS delivers your your weed so
it’s I’ve got two in the mail no no purchase limits no dosage caps per se I
mean people they regulate themselves on dosage caps I’ve not not seen anybody go wild with it but this can for example
what I love about this can 50 milligrams of THC per can not for everybody right but hey it’s awesome and guess what I
wasn’t limited my my [ _ ] fridge is full of them right now and I wouldn’t have been able to do that if I would have gone to the dispensary they would have been like oh cool you can only buy five and it’s just like my my fridge is the same way I’ve got like about 25 cans in there so it’s like I wish we could somehow take all the good things from hemp and and and address what we perceive to be the bad things and I think we both agree it’s this synthesis Adam said it much better than I think either of us can the how because he’s a chemist right so um I’ll have to put a link into the episode of The Dales report we’re referring to so folks if you want to see the episode we’re both referring to and hear Adam kind of break down uh concerns it sounds like we share I’ll have that episode in the podcast description but I just wanted to say that really quick dude before we went any further and got to the natural cannabis part cuz uh that’s really where I’m coming from it’s not like I love Delta 8 either I like I said I tried it once in 2019 at an Illinois dispensary I was like I don’t even feel like I’m high right now not really with it never tried it again I only know one person that actually uses it and I met her um at a protest against the hemp ban in Illinois because she uses them medically like she takes little Delta 8 tablets first person I ever met that that says I prefer Delta 8 she’s an older lady uh wheelchair bound I I hope to have her on the podcast sometime in the future but again just to wrap what I was saying that’s where I’m coming from it’s just like this freedom and I felt like you definitely agree with me where I’m coming from it’s this Freedom that it’s afforded me as a consumer that I feel I’ve never had via any state I’ve visited you know because I’ve gone to multiple at this point yeah I agree I mean unfortunately the formats are not as a little bit limited compared to what you would find in in a legal dispensary but there’s still there’s still a good a good variety right yeah and so I just I guess my point with the synthetic with all the synthetic stuff and then we can move on to unless you have more things to say I’ll give you the space my point with synthetic stuff let’s hit the the real stuff for sure I just want to do the closing with the synthetic stuff I really think the answer is and I know that Dan santis may not have meant it but I think the answer is on those last pages of the disantis bill where it says I think the answer to the to the synthetic cannaboid issue is that the legislature should set standards and test including random unannounced inspections standardize and repeated testing I’ll share my screen so that people can read along dosing packaging blah blah unit purchase caps which I disagree with as we just said I I don’t believe in purchasing caps but I guess if that’s what they want labeling marketing packaging and then this one thing they’ve got to be behind the counter they can’t be sold to kids I wish that that’s the actual conversation we’re happen right now but it just doesn’t seem we are anybody in this it’s I the the only answer it seems is no we’ve got to ban hemp and if you want to sell anything from the cannabis plant you need to be licensed under your state cannabis program would you agree that that seems to be the or am I painting with a broad brush no yeah I mean it seems like he’s asking for some clarity on regulations so you’re not just pull gu would you agree that like I see like uh the dalees report yourself am I wrong to say that like it seems like the answer from a lot of the investor crowd isn’t to welcome these people and say hey you want to [ _ ] try to try to work with the same standard standards as us good luck so
like you know one of those Delta operators would fail testing because they’d have acetones in their [ _ ] and then they wouldn’t be allowed it seems like that’s not the answer the answer is just no you’re not allowed to sell it at all we are the cannabis licensed people right in other words this debate doesn’t seem to be about Public Safety actually it seems to be about license limitations it’s just the the enforcement part is just I mean the da hasn’t enforced this thing it’s it’ll be almost you know typically it’s what what you see in legislations it’s like you know ban it all and then we can walk it back although you know that’s not necessarily what happens but I think you know personally like I said I think all the synthetic chemical deriv stuff should be should be banned like you should not be taking CBD and converting it through a chemical process to create these unnatural cannaboids but like I said I think you know if you’re going to let hemp the hemp industry sell canabo then then make sure they’re just natural and safe and tested I mean I have no problem with that um again but it’s just like I don’t know how that’s gonna get reconciles from a licensing perspective and who gets to sell what right that’s just it’s a more complicated issue than just saying you know everybody can sell it because it’s not like I can bootleg a bunch of beer in my garage and just in Jin and just start selling it commercially online right um right but the difference here I guess if I just yeah to put a cap on it to your question there like in Illinois if I wanted to open up a cannabis business tomorrow I could not do that but in Illinois if I wanted to open up a hemp business and start selling these sodas I’ve talked to the Illinois Department of Agriculture they said Cole if you would have submitted an application this morning at the end of this podcast you’d be walking out with a hemp license and I’m just like why isn’t cannabis test why isn’t cannabis licensing like that right yeah that’s a good point and it seems like the answer always is then we can just transition it’ll probably be pretty quick wrap up on the natural part and then we can get out of here um it seems like the answer to what I just said is well if Cole if you have open licensing look at Oklahoma look at Michigan look at Oregon they they did open licensing and guess what happened Cole they the prices hit the bottom of the barrel people lost their shirts everybody went out of business and I say this not to be heartless but it’s like so what uh restaurants we all accept that 80% of restaurants go out of business within the first five years and nobody’s pushing for license caps on restaurants right right but eventually eventually what you see happening and if you look at I think New Mexico is a good example um that’s a pretty much unlimited licensed Market they’ve got like thousand dispensaries everyone is losing their [ _ ] in that in that in
that state and what you see happen naturally when you have a unlimited market like that is over time it will it
will evolve and it will consolidate and you you will end up with some big
players that you know economies of scale have to hit at some point like you can’t keep selling products at a loss
competing uh at bottom of the barrel prices I mean just look at what happened in Canada with all the over production
right so at some point you end up you end up with industry consolidation where you have to have that reduced overhead
and and the benefit of economies of scale to really compete because otherwise you know everyone’s selling things at break even or at a loss right
and people go out of business that brings us back to the point you brought up earlier that really hit to my heart I
think combined with an open license approach you have to have uh entity per
entity ownership caps so you some caps yeah right right so I mean even if you
look at alcohol you know there’s a reason alcohol is regulated the way it is in a it’s in a lot of states right it’s like an entity can only have two
liquor licenses or and N can only have like a couple beer wine licenses like you can’t you know I’ve got Costco in my
state only two of the Costco sell liquor because that’s the cap there’s 10 15 Costco in the whole state but only two
of them have a liquor store um and see so that’s an interesting you brought up
a very interesting point there that we could just briefly touch on you know a lot of people say well let’s I know there’s a lot of discussion about
rescheduling cannabis right now a lot of people say why don’t we deschedule cannabis like alcohol and tobacco and
sometimes I add they should they should theed sometimes I add though and hemp
because that’s descheduled too but to your to your point that you just brought up as you say that doesn’t mean Wild
West and I I don’t know why we can’t figure that out like it seems like that’s the part that we’re struggling to
Grapple with like alcohol is descheduled yet it is also still highly
regulated it’s like yeah and that and that then that but that’s state level regulation right so so schedule at the
federal level well but what you see just with dco example about the Costco only two Costco having a liquor license I’ve
been to state where grocery stores sell liquor which that’s not the case in my in my state like they’re not allowed to
S so every state has slightly different rules as far as alcohol goals and that’s what that’s what people kind of expect
will happen with cannabis it’s like even if it’s fully descheduled you know every state will choose to regulate in a
different way right yeah yeah and my thing is I just wish we could take hemp and deschedule it the rest of the way
deschedule the whole plant take it from that small hemp definition and apply it also to marijuana because then that
solves all the is isues that Charlie bael listed out you can list publicly you can get safe you know you can Bank
No 2 ad yeah I mean the other issue it’s kind of interesting because you have a you
have a whole plant that’s in the control Substances Act and the rest of the drugs in there don’t fit the the category
right the rest of the drugs are molecules like heroin or or adero or cocaine or fenil and then you have a
plant in there that produces multiple canabo which shouldn’t have been scheduled in the first place but it’s
kind of like how do you reconcile the fact that you have a plant that produces multiple canono uh yet it’s scheduled alongside
single molecules like it’s really if you’re going to regulate it needs to be regulated at the cannaboid level right if you think about it like it’s the
Delta 9 THC it’s the CBD it’s a thcv like those are the molecules that would be the the equivalent of like a
scheduled substance not a whole plant um so I don’t that I think that whole
scheduling of cannabis is a cacophony on its own yeah and you know you you may
have used an example like this but this this is a good transition maybe to our flower conversation before we wrap
up somebody actually gave me this example last night just last night I was smoking with a good friend of mine who
is who’s just like me he’ll buy some of these hemp products like there’s a local
Illinois uh hemp operator that sells some of the best [ _ ] ice cream you can get I’m sure they deliver to where you are or Jane and Mary’s if you look them up 75 milligrams in a cup of ice cream you can get lower dosed if you want but as you can tell I’m I’m a high do guy um anyways what he told me last night he’s like well Cole not that obviously not that he thinks those products should be legal illegal we all love those products um but he said I W he’s like I was thinking about this and it’s almost like if you got licensed to S you get a liquor license right but then somebody comes up with this new beer that’s well it’s beer it’s ethanol but it’s not it wasn’t derived the same so now they’re allowed to sell it anywhere without a without a license um which I just want to say really quickly that I feel like that’s another misleading talking point that happens sometimes people say these unlicensed people selling uh hemp or cannabis usually they do have a hemp license or at least the people that I deal with they have like a hemp license I can look up um so to say they’re unlicensed isn’t always true but did you get the point I was trying to make there and I feel like I’ve seen you make a similar Point yeah I try to I try to make this point with like okay let’s say like I’m trying to legalize you know it’s alcohol prohibition and you know I’m trying to push the state legislature to allow me to sell 5% beer and I finally get my license and I can sell 5% alcohol containing beer and then somebody comes along and is selling five kombucha with 5% alcohol and it’s like well it’s kombucha you know but it’s like at the end of the day they intoxicated um chemical in bold drinks is 5% alcohol so when you talk about Delta 9 th whether it comes from hemp or cannabis the intoxicating product is Delta 9 THC um so you have to regulate that the same way right otherwise you’re never going to get consistency of of the products and and the testing and the quality and I I I wanted to just say this because I always get caught up in what you said and it’s not even something you’ve said it’s something you said something I’ve heard many other people just say and I just realized what my issue was with it he said whether it’s derived from hemp or cannab from hemp or cannabis as we acknowledg it’s the same plant but what I what I realized what you mean by that and correct me from wrong whether it’s derived from CBD or if it’s naturally derived THC because that’s no no I I’m talking about just Delta 9 THC just extracted from a from a hemp plant because deriving stuff from CBD that’s when you start chemically converting the molecule right right I thought that was your point was that you were against like synthetic and that sounds like yeah synthetic but but but but even even from a the natural Delta 9 THC whether it comes from a hemp Farm in Kentucky or a greenhouse from a dispensary in like Illinois you know the the Delta 9 is it’s natural from both plants but it’s treated a different way right you can buy hemp dve Delta 9 TT gummies that are natural online and get them shoot through your door but you can’t do the same from your local dispensary and get it shipped to your door right even though it’s the same gummy right um and I guess this is where I like um let me see if I can get this yeah so I’m GNA Play a clip from a cannabis industry lawyer who actually happens to be vocally anti-m he’s a cannabis leny in Illinois we don’t necess I don’t I actually don’t know that it would be accurate to say that you or I don’t see eye to ey or that he and I don’t see eye to ey I think we just have different concerns and so your concern is like it’s one that I share synthetics his concern is as a liccy how it affects his Market but I guess my point on this thca thing I really think and this is like I said this last topic that we wanted to discuss before I play the video it’s this idea that and I I thought we were on the same page about this was that people are literally selling flour and just calling it hemp or THC they I bought I bought like 20 grams of this stuff and I’ve looked at it and I smoked some of it they are 100% so like what are you saying that and acknowledging that I just want to ask you what do you mean when you say they’re they’re deriving it from hemp and that like so so the the thca flower that’s just um maybe I just let’s walk it back for a second the evolution of the hemp industry you know when I started using hemp products it was just CBD flow and I’m sure you’re familiar familiar with CBD flow it’s just it doesn’t have TT doesn’t get you high it gets you relaxed because mostly CBD has very low THC in the plant that you that you grind up and you smoke it my favorite joke is when people call it cbda flower because that’s what it is yeah yeah that’s yeah yeah anyway sorry so you know the hemp indry first started with CBD flour then they’re like oh [ _ ]
you know we got all this CBD let’s convert it to Delta a THC that was like the first big kind of breakthrough of
the hemp industry right oh [ _ ] we found this Canam that gets you high it’s a little bit mouder so then they started spraying CBD flow with delta8 isolate right I’m sure seen those nuggets they used to roll them with the white isolate they saw yesterday yeah so that they started selling that stuff they then they started selling Delta a distillate then the whole like Frankenstein canabo came out with like thcp and like Delta 10 Delta 11 THC and some of these are very strong molecules by the way like thcp is like I think 30 times stronger than Delta 9 and they put a little bit of it you know in these Vapes and whatever so they started pushing those things then the last thing that’s kind of surfaced I was say in the last 15 to 18 months and I don’t know if you agree with me the whole thca flower right yeah so I think what happened was like a bunch of these 10 people got together and were like well you know they baned Delta 9 THC but nobody said anything about thca and anybody who’s ever made edios knows that the primary Mo the primary molecule in the can of this plant is thta like that’s why you have to burn it or vape it to convert it to THC so you can get high right yeah that’s why you have to oil that’s why you can’t eat the flour get high because it’s not going to bind to The receptors you have to apply heat to thca to convert it to THC but they basically hijack thca as a marketing term like the hemp industry and they use that to basically use it as a marketing T to indicate that they’re selling weed or cannabis flour but it’s legal ferally legal hemp yeah yeah and so you I mean you you can buy this stuff almost anywhere like I I bought some from a cigar store in my near my house I bought some from a hemp store yep I bought some from um The Vape Shop they just had jars they would just weigh it out for you um and so it’s just regular weed just being sold by everybody under this thca label now the da basically recently came out and said you know that stuff ises not qualify as ferally legal hemp because you have to count both thca and THC into the 3% cap right no one’s enforcing anything you know this stuff is it’s been everywhere for about at least that I’ve been aware at least 12 months probably longer um and I feel like cookies really pioneered that by the way like they’re the biggest brand that I’m aware of that was just like we’re selling flour through the mail yeah yeah and there’s been a lot I know there’s a class fashtion lwuit in Georgia with like I think cookies and stey and a bunch of others um but basically yeah th flowers just regular weed that your granddaddy used to smoke um it’s no different yeah now the only problem I have is that none of these guys test for anything like pesticides and stuff like pretty much every certificate of analysis I’ve seen most of the flowers is coming from California Oregon North Carolina and Tennessee at least what I’ve seen um and basically all of the certificates of analysis just basically say here’s how much CBD and th is in there and then there’s no pesticide test there’s no heavy metals there’s no bacteria there’s no microt toxin which is like fungal fungal toxins um so it’s it’s more or less I would say what you what you would get like 15 20 years ago from the elicit market right but it’s grown at such scale and so out in the open that I feel like it’s even not as safe as what you used to smoke 15 years ago because it’s just it’s grown under the protections of the hemp industry it being hemp and so nobody know the fact that they’re not testing for pesticides I mean that should tell you that there might be pesticides in there right because it’s like why wouldn’t you test your product and show your consumer that there’s no pesticide it’s just it’s almost like this stuff is grown in these massive hemp Farms then it’s kind of shipped to these e-commerce platforms that that drop ship it to your house and it’s regular weed but you know it wasn’t stuff grown in some dude’s closet with t plants that he took care of him it’s it’s stuff that’s out in the wild on multi-acre farms and it’s and while some of it might be legit weed which I’ve seen some really good stuff out there that I bought personally from like Tennessee Farms um again like unless I went to a lab and tested myself there’s no guarantee that it has no pesticide in it um so that’s that’s my only concern there it’s kind of like you know okay if you’re gonna sell this stuff and you claim it’s legal and it’s regular weed and you want to sell it under the the the H playable at least test it like at least like you know make sure your consumer has some like safety protections yeah that’s that’s a well said you know I’m so glad that I reached out to you because I figured I heard you on I think it maybe was the Dale’s report and I was like just to hear somebody and I think some other people said this that that conversation was so refreshing versus like a back and forth on Twitter and so instead of even trying to do that that’s why I just reached out to you I was like feel like we could have probably a really productive conversation um you know about these subjects and I’m sure that we agree on more than we disagree on and it sounds like the concern that we all share is like yeah people can be operating uh you know at massive scales and not applying any of the same standards that frankly some of these massive grows have to to uh comply with and I I do want to say just quickly I’m not saying this is an argument against testing but I would be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that Cannabis Testing isn’t isn’t perfect oh absolutely I agree with that yeah I mean there’s just one story from the you know Chicago sometimes you might actually see my name in it if folks should check out the story um uh but what’s in Illinois weed look just look at what just came out out of California right like State companies right so even they even they are like selling stuff that’s that’s uh they had pesticides in it which which means like okay they must have gotten a certificate of analysis somewhere because the state does regulate that these things shouldn’t have these these chemicals in them but did the lab that actually tested their stuff like is are their instruments even calibrated do they even detect stuff or were they just bad Labs or were they like purposefully you know possibly falsified certificat of analysis right so it’s just like there’s no guarantee either way but it’s a step in the right direction right just having having the lab test your stuff like you should at least um have at least some level of protections and I think I think the federal government really needs to step in and basically Institute some standards like through NY and you know start certifying these Labs through NY which is like the National Institute of of safety and standards and and just just start basically certifying these labs and and checking them because unless until you until you require people to test their stuff and then have the government certify the labs because the government would be like they would go in there and basically make sure they’re their laboratory equipment is calibrated um they would get samples for them to to validate that the lab equipment is producing the results that the nist uh equipment is also producing so it’s basically cross- calibrating the equipment between like multiple Labs uh until the government starts doing that I don’t think you’re G to see um like very high compliance and like 99% of like consumer safety like being addressed through like Labs alone right like those labs have to be certified by like a regulatory body body that checks them and validates that their equipment is actually functioning properly and and and splitting out the correct results well and another huge issue that was pointed out to me from Chris Becker who’s uh part of somebody with the honeybee Collective I don’t want to say he’s the owner but he’s definitely you know somebody there he’s up high up at the honeybee Collective and um he had tweeted to me once don’t forget that companies in many states get to select their own own sample to give to the lab there’s no random or independent sampling in Most states and that’s one thing that I have never understood you know it’s interesting what they call it in Illinois is third-party independent lab testing that makes it seem like like you have no idea who they are they’re independent from you but it’s like no it’s very much that you pick the lab like yes it’s a third party and yes they’re independent from you but you shop for that lab and and there’s been many reports of lab shopping so like you say yeah CID testing in general for Bad actors sure yeah it leaves room for Bad actors but I think you know if you have Labs regulated and kind of certified by nist which is you know National Institute of stand standards and technology and then you have your state regulatory bodies go and randomly sample these products and run them through the through the tests I think that’s going to give you a pretty good um framework for like consumer safety right like if you if you can kind of certify that the labs are indeed using proper equipment and then you have the state regulatory agencies randomly go do do these checks right they they randomly go buy get a couple samples off the stores so they’re not relying on the stores sending them whatever they want right they can randomly sample sample a few products and then test them I think that’ll be that’s kind of the ideal world I think I don’t know if that’s going to happen but I’ll would say from from a consumer safety perspective that would give me probably the highest degree of confidence that the products are safe um it’s just whether that happens or not it’s a different story yeah well hey let’s let’s bring this to a close I want to play the clip that I promised just because I had it queued up and I don’t want to you know uh not play it it’s only a minute long um we basically already made the point but this is from the Cannabis industry lawyer uh that that we were speaking about uh so let’s just watch the clip if you go and buy weed at your medical dispensary locally or at your adult HED dispensary it’s probably going to be hemp the vast majority of the ones that you see in an Illinois dispensary qualify as H you they’ll be in Missouri too uh Michigan don’t play that the thca loophole is really big cuz that’s what the plant makes so the plant is making hemp it’s not marijuana until you light it on fire would you agree that maybe some people are just slapping on a thca stick and selling weed right now yeah under the as you just said the dispensary carries these products too I think some people get conf think you’re on mute oh thanks uh my bad on that yeah I just wanted to to show that point you had already kind of made it and if those Graphics were a little bit too short to see the the arrows were pointing these were pictures from an actual dispensary menu in Illinois and the THC levels were lower than 3% so for all intents and purposes as you said what some people could do is slap a thca sticker on it and and sell it as yeah and I actually made a post about this back in November when uh you know I think truly was basically said hey we’re not paying 28 taxes yeah I started looking into this thca stuff and I was like well technically you know a couple of their products would qualifies as hemp because it’s just a cannabis plant that just you know it’s funny because the thca like it’ll naturally convert to THC U just slowly right right and depending on like okay if you grew it outdoor it was a hot season right you’re gonna get more more of that THC converted into THC before you harvest so it really comes down like climate control andh you know when you harvest and like how long has the plant been in the flowering stage right all these things right and so yeah you have regular cannabis from a dispensary that would certainly qualify hemp under the hemp law right but but I think there’s a there’s also a misunderstanding that thca doesn’t account for the 3% cap of THC and I think that’s where like that’s the legal Gray Line and gray area where people are the people are playing with which is why kind of recently the DEA came out and said look guys like this [ _ ] is like it’s just weed it doesn’t qualifies as
hemp like you guys are just selling marijuana right um so whether they enforced that what they said is a
different story but that’s been happening for a while right like people people are just selling weed and they’re calling it thca
um yeah well my last thought here and and you already may have read this one I
don’t know if if you were on this thread or not but um the last thought here and
I want to give you space for the final word I kind of uh shared the Dale’s report episode and I just
basically said you know I don’t totally agree with the idea that synthetic cannaboids are bad
that’s not to say they’re good either I’d like to be clear that I and I’ve kind of established this but I wanted to
give you the final word on this and put it since I had already prepared these thoughts I wanted to say this as we
closed um I share most of the concerns relating to the synthesis of canabo that were shared during that interview and as
a result I avoid consuming those and while I don’t prefer to consume them and
I only know that one person that does I still have concerns about treating any
part or derivative of the cannabis plant like a scheduled substance I just don’t
trust the DEA and it’s we’ve learned it’s so hard even to to convert to schedule three uh you know they don’t
they’re not with it to put it to put it bluntly but they’re going to be forced into it it sounds like by attorney
general Merrick Garland I just it like I said in the statement if if we have
concerns about synthetic canabo I believe we should just all come together and ensure we’re all regulating and testing them instead of because I feel
like you can’t just ban it what happens is they get shoved in the shadows like these Farm Bill synthetic canabo are new
but you know spice is still out there right that [ _ ] doesn’t go away and it’s just like I feel like we have to ring this above board because of course anybody that buys that [ _ ] it’s
foolish enough to buy that [ _ ] I don’t say that to like denigrate them it’s just like man when you see that some of the stuff Delta 10 or whatever like what are you doing if you’re buying that like if I would rather them know what they’re buying I guess is my is my thought you know what I’m saying like it’s the whole War on Drugs idea and I just worry about safe Supply but I went on and on I want to give you the final word dude and I just want to say I really appreciate you coming on and spending time with me on my show no absolutely it’s been it’s been a great conversation and uh I guess just to add to what you said you know it’s kind of what I’ve been trying to do is just educate the consumer and the consumer and just understand like what you’re what you’re putting in your body like personally you know unfortunately ingested some pretty bad stuff from the hemp industry and that’s when I went down this rabbit hole and you know I had some possible lung complications from this stuff myself and um you know my my rule of thumb usually is you know I avoid all the chemically derived stuff and if you want you know a good product from a from a hemp hemp industry company that’s selling hemp derived products my my rule of thumb is you know go to their website if they’re selling like Delta 8 and like thc1 like like I just close I just close the tab and I don’t go back to the website but if if there a if there’re a quality operator that sells hemp products they will ba they will basically only sell things like CBD Delta 9 THC uh CB G CBC these are actually natural cannaboids in in the hemp plan as well um so if you see a a company that that sells like the Delta eight stuff like thc1 like thc1 that’s when you know like you’re kind of treading into like Dangerous Waters and so you know just keep that in mind and you know if you want to buy the Hem products just make sure you getting like naturally sourced products um from the from the plant itself and not chemically synthes synthesized um things oh yeah well once again folks uh I just wanted to say you can find it in the podcast description I’m sitting with the Dank and forer you can follow them on Twitter um I follow them I know I mentioned that I had you muted earlier I’ve got you on a temporary mute because I wanted to come into this meeting clearheaded and sometimes like I said some of the things you post make me want to be like this is what I think but I can’t I can’t do that nuanced thought in a [ _ ] tweet so I was like I’m gonna mute him just for a
day you know and we’re gonna have this conversation and I’m sure I’m gonna I’m sure I’m gonna come out happy and that’s
how I feel coming out of this conversation with you my friend I’ve muted and blocked people and then I’ve unmuted him and unblocked him so I think
as long as we all have a productive conversation and we can come to a to an
agreement I think that’s that’s all that matters yeah I’ll just say it was cool to learn I didn’t I didn’t understand I
didn’t know this about you that that you’re a lot like me and that you’re a consumer I mean you’re from a illegal
State as we established and you’re a consumer that’s that’s benefiting off of off of this as well so it’s like one way
we’re on the same page and I thought that was really cool to learn about you so yeah I just want people to not make
the same mistakes that I did um consuming products from the derived industry so trying to educate everyone
well uh thank you again and folks I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did we’ll see you on
the next episode of the Cole memo take care