In this episode, I visit Molly’s Joint, a consumption lounge in Illinois, to sit down with Heather and Boyd LaFoon from VineyardAccounting.net. During the conversation, Boyd and Heather break down the crucial role that accountants play for businesses, explain the complexities of operating in the cannabis industry (including the implications of 280E on both state and federal levels, as well as challenges like SAFE banking).
Heather and Boyd also shed light on the financial differences between hemp and cannabis businesses, highlighting how hemp, as a descheduled substance, enjoys advantages such as accepting credit cards and accessing banking services more easily. Boyd and Heather also share insights and anecdotes from a recent cannabis conference held in Illinois.
Tune in to learn more about the complications that plant-touching and ancillary businesses face in the cannabis industry.
- Watch the episode on Patreon here
- Watch the episode on Youtube here
- Stream the episode on Soundcloud here
- Stream the episode on Spotify here
- Stream the episode on Apple Podcast here
- Stream the episode on X here
Links mentioned during show
- Website for Vineyard Accounting
- Instagram for Vineyard Accounting
- ColeMemo.com/ILConsumption
- Article from Cannabis Business Times on 280e
- Episode 39 with Charlie Bachtell
- What’s in Illinois Weed? Sometimes Contaminants
- Episode 59 with ACT Labs. Discussion on issues with Cannabis Testing in Illinois
- Episode 88 – Belushi talks lowering taxes
The auto-generated transcript is available below.
[Music] today I’m in Tilton Illinois with Heather and Boyd Heather Boyd thank you so much joining us thanks for having us yeah yeah tell us tell our listeners where they can find you online we’re Vineyard accounting we’re at Vineyard accounting. net we’re on LinkedIn I mean if you if you need to find us just Google Vineyard accounting and every place we are you’ll find us there is as far as I know not another Vineyard accounting out there perfect yeah or check out the podcast description folks I’ll have direct links if you just want to click and go there if that’s easier for you that’s the way to do it once again we’re in Molly’s joint right now in Tilton Illinois shout out to the 1937 love this place love coming over here it’s great to have such an an open consumption venue uh this close to us here in in Central Illinois Ambrose and Alex and Sonia have done a fantastic job with this facility and with this new outdoor space it’s it’s going to be something this this summer we’re really excited straight up and folks um if you go back and check it out I’ll have a link to this as well I was invited to the grand opening this is uh the second podcast I’ve recorded but we recorded the first podcast in Molly’s joint and this place let me just say feels like like what I expected legalization to be isn’t that a fair it’s like smoke openly you can have a drink you can get some food get buy some weed play Mario Kart on the big screen Xbox and Nintendo back there it’s that’s awesome so folks real quick you’re tuned into to the Cole memo I’m your host Cole Preston every episode is released in audio video and transcript format to find the transcript audio or video version of any episode please just refer to the description of the episode that you’re listening to now within that description you can find a link that will take you to our website which will display the transcript for this episode and the platforms where you can find this episode in audio or video formats if you’re unable to locate the episode description on whichever platform you’re listening from I get it the platforms change all the time simply take note of the episode number and visit the memo.com from there you can use our search functionality in the top right hand corner to find the corresponding episode and then you’ll be able to access the audio video and transcript version of that episode you might also find any links that we reference during the episode so that you can connect with people like Boyd and Heather from Vineyard accounting if you’re not listening to this episode of the Cole memo on patreon then you’re listening to this episode a bit later than our patrons to become a patron go to theol memo.com patreon it’s a great way to support our show another way to support our show is at the memo.com ssupport it costs a lot to do this show between traveling equipment um and everything else hosting fees you name it this show is brought to you by listeners like you so if you’re able to support us go to the memo.com support before we get into it I just want to say one of the best ways to support the show to support the show is just to Simply share it with your friends subscribe to or follow our show like it tell your best friend about it all that stuff makes a huge difference today is Friday June 7th just a little bit after the fine hour of 4:20 and once again I’m sitting down with Boyd and Heather okay cannabis and money I I just want to start with um what what do you guys do first I mean it sounds very straightforward accounting but like you specialize in cannabis accounting is that Heather Heather is the accountant I always like to say at Vineyard accounting Heather counts your D I run the show and um Heather is the accountant in the operation and um she’s been doing Accounting in taxes um more than 10 years uh I don’t remember when I actually got first started in it um but I’ve got a background um a wide background uh bachelor’s in accounting Masters in forensic accounting um I have always liked tax returns they’re just a really big puzzle that are fun to figure out boy thinks I’m a little crazy on that aspect but uh taxes have always been fun and interesting to me and then I kind of parlayed into all of the other things that go along with accounting yeah I tax returns there something that I just like haphazardly do is the due date approaches and I’m like calling my aunt who’s an accountant I’m like I do I don’t want to get a call from the IRS it’s so stressful I could just before we get into everything I just I know that it creates jobs for people like you so I’m not trying to argue you’re out of a job I just hate how we do taxes because it’s like I always I feel like this is not even I feel like this is a cliche joke almost if you do your taxes wrong you’ll get a call right away but they expect to do your taxes so it’s like you guys obviously know what I owe right if I’m going to get in high school they don’t teach you how to change a tire they don’t teach you how to change your oil they don’t teach you how to do your taxes but the uh mitochondria is the PowerHouse of the cell that’s the old joke so they taught us that but uh right they don’t teach you really about savings anything else like that yeah but Heather’s been accountant for a number of years um we when adult recck use came online in Illinois we saw it as an opportunity to enter into this new industry and parlay or put to good use I should say uh our skill sets to service this industry and it has been an education for sure absolutely absolutely we learned something even now we’re what four years in um and we still learn something new every day on the Cannabis side I you know I joke about you can have run any other kind of business successfully and you get into cannabis and you don’t know what you don’t know it it works different than any other industry there um and it’s a new learning curve every day and things change I mean it’s it’s also it’s also an environment that um what what is a fact today may or may not be how it works tomorrow so we we have to keep on top of all of that all those changing things as well we come we came to cannabis through an unusual path I always tell when when you meet somebody in cannabis our age this is generally not their first career this is absolutely my third or fourth same with Heather um we come from uh 25 years of grape cultivation we actually do own a Vineyard I was going to say there’s the vineyard yes there’s the V back in 1997 my parents both worked for the state of Illinois down in Southern Illinois and they decided they were getting ready to retire and my dad needed a way to get out of the house and not drive my mom crazy so they bought a farm and in 1998 we planted our first crop of grapes and in 1999 we planted our second and for 25 years we grew grapes in Southern Illinois for the Illinois wine industry um just cultivators just Growers we didn’t have a winery I didn’t want the headache of having a liquor license and worryed about insurance and booking a band and people that want to have a wedding I just wanted to be a farmer and so for 25 years we grew grapes and sold them to a number of Wineries and we were pretty good at it we won some awards wines that were made from our grapes won best and show at the Illinois State Fair more than once and it was interesting because it wasn’t until we had gotten into cannabis that we realize that there are a lot of parallels between these two industries um Illinois had a grape and wine industry back pre-prohibition um it kind of floundered for many many decades and then it kind of saw a Resurgence in the 80s and the 90s and that’s when my that’s when my family got involved in it and over the course of of our years of growing grapes and and selling grapes to the wine makers um we belong to an association a Statewide Association my father was actually president of that Association for a couple of years and it was during that time that I discovered that the California wine industry spends more money on lobbying in the state of Illinois than the state than the entire state of Illinois wine industry earns in a year so think think about that yeah and the reason why is because Chicago is the number one wine consumption city in the world in the world Chicago consumes more wine per capita than Paris Rome places that you would think would be number one Chicago and it’s such a valuable Market MH that the California wine industry in in the early days of the Illinois wine industry was so threatened by this homestate Market that they were out I mean Illinois wine industry wasn’t spending any money on lobbies because they didn’t have any money to spend California was spending money on wine on wine on lobbyists in Springfield to keep the Illinois wine industry down and if you fast forward 20 years and you replace California wine industry with msos and small cultivators with you know small cultivators in cannabis there’s a lot of parallels yeah and how the paths of these two industries have moved forward in the state and the challenges that both Industries have faced and continue to face yeah I that’s a perspective that yeah speaking of learning things nothing surprises this when comes to agriculture taxation regulation market share um institutional bureaucracy that is require you know with with grape and wine it’s going through the liquor distributors everything has to go through the liquid Distributors so that they get their cut right and that’s where the point of lobbying is is that’s that’s who controls you know the volume and and who orders and everything else and it’s it’s just like a small cultivator trying to get their product on a on a shelf in a big in a big dispensary yep yeah very similar wow that’s interesting I I the only thing that I think I was aware of that was that you just touched on that I was kind of familiar I remember when Las Vegas like first launched their market and the the Distributors the alcohol Distributors fought their way into being like the only cannabis Distributors and it was very interesting in cases sort of like this where it’s a little bit different um but you know you’ve kind of got all this on one property um in Vegas there was this situation where it was like the dispensary was on the property and the cultivation was on the property so literally the alcohol guy had to come in take a pallet wheel it down the hallway and like that was it was like some Vice report that I recall seeing um Nevada home of casinos impulse weddings legal brothel and as of July 1st recreational marijuana if you’re wondering did they just say legal brothel yes you heard that right I actually traveled out to Illegal brothel spoke to several licensed legal sex workers in a series that I produced you can check it out at the memo.com seex the truth is the state has never been anything close to a free market Paradise everything from the Las Vegas taxi industry to prostitution is controlled by a handful of politically connected companies licensed to operate by the government this means exorbitant prices and unnecessary hassles for customers and businesses the latest industry to take hold here legal weed is no exception Governor Brian sandavol recently declared a state of emergency because Nevada’s 37 licensed marijuana shops are running out of inventory how could that be the law legalizing weed in Nevada also granted an 18-month Monopoly on distribution to liquor companies [Music] not only do alcohol wholesalers lack the experience or infrastructure to transport marijuana most are too afraid to even enter the market because they’re regulated by the federal government and marijuana is still considered illegal on the federal level and there isn’t a shortage of cannabis as much as there is a shortage of Distributors Arman yanan the owner of essence a marijuana dispensary just north of the Vegas Strip started out running a facility for medical marijuana which was legalized in Nevada back in 2015 when he was dealing with medical cannabis his employees simply moved inventory from the growhouse to the storefront themselves now that Essence is selling recreational marijuana that’s no longer an option our cultivation facility is no more than a couple miles from our dispensary even worse there are some cultivations that are in the same building as the dispensaries but to your point it’s interesting how there are a lot of parallels to how these industries highly taxed highly regulated specialized agriculture product that is I’m sure oh I know for a fact is out earning everything but coin and corn and soybeans so yeah that’s crazy so we’re going to talk obviously about so you mentioned earlier that you know things can kind of change day by day and one thing that may change in the future is rescheduling but that’ll be big um actually before we talk taxes and everything else and get into all of the the finance stuff um I just wanted to give a little bit more space to the people that are hosting this conversation really quick and I also just you said you might have some stories to tell so I thought maybe that’s this is a good time you want to go ahead we were in we were up in Nan we were up in shamber over the weekend um for the uh convention we this is the fourth one and we’ve been to all four um this was a very it was a great confence we love going up and seeing all of our Chicago cannabis and just for folks that may be tuning in later and didn’t catch it out you said it’s a Cannabis Conference Canabis conf Midwest Cannabis Conference Chicago cannabis convention whatever um it’s goes by many names but it’s nice because after having gone for so many years we see so many friends we see so many people that we know um we were very um pleasantly um I want to say entertained um educated uh informed by a number of different panels but 1937 group um on Friday at the conference the uh keynote was given by Jim balushi and on Saturday the keynote was given by Ambrose Jackson Who shared the the det Journey yes many details about his journey and stories I’d never heard for sure and it was very emotional it was very moving um but you know everyone Alex Jim Sonia everyone from 1937 had a session that they LED um I learned probably more in the session about the actual building of this facility and the different challenges and hurdles they went through and how they wanted to make it what it is and you know that was very very educational but um good conference um very different this year very um focused on Craft Growers we’ve we’ve been to four of them in fact on the drive over we were talking about how different the first one was compared to this one um the last two years have been in shamberg good good facility um but this year was very focused on the craft Growers there were not a lot of uh there were fewer ancillary businesses in the Expo there were fewer big brands in the Expo it was very uh aimed towards the craft grow uh a lot of social Equity um information and sessions um it was you could just kind of see a pivot in the programming and in the setup of it so it was yeah both on the trade floor and the msos kind of sat it out I think they didn’t they didn’t I didn’t see the presence of the big Brands oh really both on the trade show floor what I thought was just because like what I thought you were saying cuz I had heard a few other people say something similar they were like yeah this there was a lot of craft Growers there and I thought well in the past there just weren’t any open so so now that they’re open it’s like okay right I think they showcased th those efforts of the people who are finally turning that corner they’re getting to that Tipping Point where they’ve managed to get their financing they got their Capital raise done their branding their packaging uh you know we talked to some people that we know up there uh ree Xavier from hd23 he was there showing his new brand um and uh well the event that meline and High Focus Media hosted on Friday night was very specific to the smaller licenses to the equity licenses to the craft Growers and the newer Brands the newer Brands um and they were the the companies that were represented at that event and that was noticeable so yeah well yeah do got to give a shout out to High Focus Media as well so folks check out High Focus Media and AA they’re doing a lot of things for consumers including trying to make I think things like this more they had the opening panel um Ika and and High Focus Media anded events Phil from high minded they had the opening panel very informative about you know consumption spaces and wanting to do more events and the reality of putting together consumption events what you know how do how do you do that what hurdles do you have to overcome to make those happen and um just the intricacies of it the the ins and outs the formalities all of that kind of stuff so it was a very very interesting very informative panel yeah yeah that’s a whole that’s almost a whole episode in and of itself at this point I’ve recorded several episodes on the topic of cannabis consumption lounges at actual cannabis consumption lounges I’ve even sat down with the faces behind high-minded events who host cannabis consumption events across the state of Illinois if you’d like to see those episodes go to the memo.com consumption that link will be in the podcast description a lot of hemp people too lot of people there looking for answers wan to know what’s going to happen to my business when the new Farm Bill comes out yeah and I mean just saying like there’s a hemp drinks for sale over there there’s hemp ice cream for sale over there I’m drinking a hemp drink from a actually a social Equity licy so these people have a social Equity license just like uh 19 1937 group River Bluff Collective oh yeah we know DJ we know DJ yeah yeah good guys good guys and tast tasty drinks I got to say if you want me I’ve got more for you um so just just holler at me and I’ve also got smokes here so um but of course we’ve got a lot of Finance stuff to talk about as well but I wanted to give more room to give shout outs to offic some people absolutely absolutely got to support each other and and I am thankful that they just allowed us you know like hey can we smoke and stuff here and they’re like sure come on down you know so shout out to them yeah very nice venue yeah and there needs to be 50 more of them across the day yeah because if I could if I didn’t make it more clear as I alluded to earlier this is not the first time I’ve been here but uh so if you want to check out the episode where we kind of talk on day one but if it’s not clear we are at a consumption Lounge right now next door within the same complex is a dispensary and also within the same complex is a bar restaurant and gaming Lounge yeah the restaurant they got new burgers on the menu we’ve we got inside information there’s new burgers on the menu here got to come down and try them out I tried the wings last time and I was blown away I was blown away by how delicious they were so I mean if you’re trying to like I say Enjoy what I think legalization should be what we all expected it to be a good place to stop is in Molly’s joint and hopefully through the efforts of the folks we mentioned we’ll see more of that y so I hope so hope so yes well um I was talking about changes that may come at a federal level but let’s talk first do you agree maybe we’ll talk first about changes that just happened at the state level like last session and how that has impacted for actually before we even talk it going away let’s talk about 28 and what it is and what makes cannabis businesses frankly harder to operate am I wrong to say that no that’s very true um so 280e is a section in the IRS code and it’s very short it’s one sentence and the basic of it basic premise of it is if you are trafficking illicit drugs you do not have the benefit of any deductions or credits what right so you pay a lot of taxes I mean some some say up to you know 60% um a lot more than you would in any other business in this in this environment um depending on you know there are other businesses that you that that 28 applies to as well but cannabis is the interesting one because states have legalized so there are license holders and there are more and more um more and more entrepreneurs and business businesses open in this area that are subject to 28e so if we think of what does that look like on a profit and loss statement all of the things like payroll rent marketing your equipment insurance insurance none of those things are deductible so you pay taxes on your gross revenue minus your cost of goods sold so that’s the number that you pay taxes on you don’t get to take any of those other deductions or credits and if I could put it cuz I just learned I know uh I’m probably to too old to have just learned about this but I just learned what deductions were within like the last year so can I put it like let’s say that I was running a business right now this podcast is and it’s just kind of like a hobby but let’s say it’s a business called the co memo and I travel to a conference and I get some meals and I stay in a hotel the idea is right that I can save those receipts and at the end of the year deduct those bus related expenses business related expenses from my taxes correct gotcha and and the real impact and this is how I learned about it was I owed a bunch of taxes I like wait a minute and so I talked to like I say my accountant and they’re like oh wait you’ve been spending a lot of money on this let’s let’s total that up do some deductions and then all of a sudden I’m getting money back right right I wanted to break that down for Layman because honestly for the longest time I’ve been hearing about this and they’re like we can’t do deductions and all all this stuff and it just goes right over a non just a consumer’s head frankly yeah if you if you owned a bakery you know flour sugar milk your employees your advertising flour sugar and milk are part of your cost of goods sold so you would still get to deduct that that is that is the equivalent in the Cannabis space but the non-equivalent is your employees your payroll your insurance your rent any other expense relating to running a business in the cannabis space is a wash as far as federal tax is concerned that’s what 280e that’s how 280 impacts people and that’s why it’s so hard to make it in this environment because you have such a burden a large tax burden gotcha there’s just not nothing left over at the end right margins are thin and with that much tax margins get really thin mhm and not to pop quiz you but I just thought of this isn’t 280e and like the real like source of it even becoming a part of the code Al Capone and he like trying to write off stuff in his old alcohol business or is that just something I think I found the information that I was referring to in the conversation I’ll paste this full article in the show notes but I’m displaying it on my screen right now the IRS rarely used the public policy exception to deny deductions then in walks Jeff Edmonson Jeff Edmonson was convicted on drug charges and went to prison in 1974 however Mr Edmonson had learned the lesson of Al Capone that the real prison time is for tax evasion so Mr Edmonson dutifully filed his Federal Tax Returns declaring his drug trafficking income he also took all his lawful business deductions for his drug dealing business the IRS attempted to deny the deductions based upon public policy exception but but failed in Tax Court Edmonson was able to take his deductions for his drug dealing business Congress did not like this result Congress wanted the public policy exception to apply to unlawful drug dealing so in 1982 Congress adopted section 280e which codified the public policy exception for illegal drug dealing can see section 280e displayed below once again I’ll put the link to this article in the show notes so that you can do your own research heard I don’t know the I don’t know the origins of 280e but the remedies for 280e the the instruction the establishment of 280e in cannabis and then section 471 which is the carve out that allows for the deductions on cost of its sold and how you calculate cost how you calculate cost of consult are based on court cases that have happened in the last six or seven years in California federal tax cases champ harbor side and then the harbor side appeal are the three tax cases that established 280e 471 they didn’t establish but they probably put a finer point cified it into tax law and helped people understand how to apply that what does that mean for me in a business what does that mean for them in a business what applies what doesn’t what’s allowable under it what’s not MH um it it created a lot more clarification gotcha that’s the way you know tax law Works in this country you challenge it or the IRS is you can’t do that you hire La say yeah we can right so go ahead well and I was going to say the interesting thing in the state of Illinois so we made we made reference that that is the federal level so in 2020 starting January of 2023 Illinois took the perspective as a few other states have I don’t know the count right now they decoupled so they said if you are a business in the state of Illinois at a state level we will allow you deductions and credits so at the state level you you are not penalized for being a license holder and being in the Cannabis space um so that creates more tracking and more work and more you need to make sure that you’re compliant at the federal level but then you do get these benefits these deductions and credits at the state level and I think for a business like ours it it comes in handy because basically if you’re a LIC since cannabis business in the state of Illinois and you can take advantage of this decoupling you’re going to require two sets of books you’re going to require your federal books and your state books because what you’re allowed to do from tax perspective is different on those two tax returns one set of books two sets of reports again that’s why she’s the accountant gotcha so so that’s interesting so if I could just yeah kind of put it back for a Layman before those changes happened at the state level um you’d get to the end of the year you’d perhaps owe a lot on your federal or state taxes both and then uh you know since people it’s probably not their first time getting into the business they might be like oh hey we’re going to write this stuff off we got all this equipment we got all this blah blah blah rude come to find out they can rude awakening there are there there was a study um a couple years back I don’t remember within the last four years um and a sampling of cannabis based business returns were reviewed and I don’t remember the number but I know it was more than 60% were filed incorrectly got that they were taking deductions and credits or they were taking um more than they should have been more than they were allowed to so when the audit process occurs uh that has the potential to be a rote Awakening that you know you you you don’t get all of these deductions and credits that you took and the taxes that you paid or the taxes that you didn’t pay are going to in increase drastically as that return is audited and amended uh so that’s one of the things when when we talk to folks um depending on where they’re at in their Journey we always make sure if you have filed let’s take a look and see were they filed correctly um my opinion with the IRS it’s always better for you to find your error and resolve that error instead of them finding that error and telling you how to resolve that um so that’s that’s something that we I think it’s also worthwhile to say that even the largest cannabis companies in this state the msos that are headquarters in in Illinois but that operate in multiple States most of them carry huge tax burdens to the government right now because the interest on that is cheaper than any interest they could get on money if they were trying to borrow Capital to help stand up their business or help keep their business going and so they operate knowing they have this tax burden that’s owed to the government that they’re not paying because or they’re on a payment plan or they’re on a payment plan because that’s the cheapest way to get credit sure that’s that’s super super interesting so this 280e change in Illinois was that a pretty big deal for operators I mean a sizable like I know it’s not the solution to the whole problem and we might talk about what could be that in a moment but sure it’s it’s it shows that the state is a active partner in the Cannabis industry now it benefits the msos more than it benefits anybody because they make the most money sure um but but it is it is it is proportionately beneficial to any business in the state yeah they don’t got to worry about it anymore right it is and we we saw it as the state’s way to help people become operational for those you know those small businesses where that amount of money might be whether they could keep their doors open or close their doors it makes a difference yeah I just want to thank you both again for coming out to see me excited thanks for having us thanks for having us come here never know where you usually do it but this this is a nice nice venue nice venue anywhere and everywhere really you know usually from home home wasn’t the greatest place to do it today I was thinking about having you guys over to my humble abode with the kitties and and all the the weed that that we’ve got some rolled up right now you know so that’s we can partake in that but um but yeah thank you for coming out here and and joining me we’ve been trying to make this happen for a while it seems like we’ve been talking about it and uh it’s one of those things you being you know where you are and us being in Champagne it’s you know when you’re close you’re like oh we can get to it on the so yeah totally totally well um so we have kind of been alluding to it there’s this potential of a change towards rescheduling I actually just read the other day on Twitter so take that for what it’s worth that this may not have the 280e impact that a lot of people thought it could but let’s just let’s just say it did so if it is rescheduled y if it comes off if cannabis is removed from schedule one to schedule 3 28 no longer applies because cannabis is not on schedule one it is no longer trafficking an illegal substance so 280e doesn’t apply so when that goes into play that immediately is a tax relief for anybody that’s a license holder anybody that’s in that space now what does that mean big picture hard to know because we don’t know how we don’t know what it’s going to look like sure when they going to roll it out we’re in comment period now so there’s no way to tell what it’s going to how what the result or the effects going to be at the end because we don’t know what it’s going to look like at the end we don’t know how they plann to implement it and you know what new regulations are they going to try to put into place but either way it’s good news for people like you right well it’s good news for everybody because well it should be good news for everybody because I mean basically you you wake up one morning and you potentially have 15 to 30% more cash flow 15 to 30% less tax due that change and hopefully changes the landscape not only in the amount of tax that’s due but does that help with banking does that help with merchant services does that help with the cost of of payroll of HR of all of those ancillary things that are significantly more expensive in the Cannabis space because it’s dealing with an illicit Market a lot a lot of the people we talk to is that this is like a touchstone moment this is something that if if it moves from schedule one to schedule 3 it will hopefully remove a lot of the stigma it will hopefully remove a lot of the reluctance uh from a business standpoint from a political standpoint um one would hope that it would lead to the passage of safe banking so that we could help clients and help anybody involved with cannabis get reliable credit card and merchant services and or just bank account just get a bank account that they you know and I know didn’t have that really I I should have texted you that so that you could mentally prepare but if you could just kind of off the cuff how does that work I’ve I’ve always heard like it’s like you find a credit union my girlfriend used to work at a a dispensary so she had to get a credit union right so Credit Unions tend to be more um big Banks tend to not want to work in the Cannabis space because they’re federally chartered credit unions are State chartered so a big bank is not going to want to risk their their Federal Banking Charter by Banking and doing business with other businesses that are are participating in a federally illegal Market um so I mean even us as ancillary we had an account and we were I mean we weren’t we weren’t shy about I mean I I shouldn’t say we weren’t shy about it we were open about what our business model is when we open the account the banker that we were sitting across the desk from was like okay I get it open the account deposited had the account for about a week got a call and they’re like your account has been red flagged you earn money from the plant I’m like well but we’re not plant touching right but your clients are plant- touching so even us in an ancillary position are impacted by safe the lack of safe banking wow so we’re on our third bank right so we are at a bank that is a small community- based bank that is very aware of our business model we have to provide information you know about where our funds coming from um if we if we collect more than a threshold amount of money from any one client we basically we have to prove that we’re working in the legal market and not in the black market but they have decided they’re bored they have decided that they’re worth risk they’re okay with that for ancillary they don’t they don’t take anybody that’s plant- touching but anybody that is plant touching you have multiple different um additional components to banking High cash transactions um you know we I heard a story about a dispensary that opened a bank account at the bank down the road and the first time that they took a pile of cash in to deposit it the bank is like we don’t take cash deposits in that amount you know you you have to make sure that the mechanisms are in place at the bank for them to transact the kind of business that you need to transact and many of them don’t want to do that because of the risk perspective well and if you’re running a dispensary you have to have enough bank accounts so you only have $200,000 in each one because that’s the limit on FD FDIC you’re only insed up to $200,000 so you don’t want to have a million dollars in a bank account because if the bank fails you’re only cover to $200,000 I learned that from Ozark that’s where a lot of accting sweeping and then there is also a lot of compliance and risk assessment with the amount of money that’s going through banks most cannabis bank accounts have high fees it’s high risk so they have high fees merchant processing you know we we have a client that is not plant touching but again again because they are an ancillary and most of their most of their consumers are buying with them because they are consuming cannabis they’re in that same space so they are also subject to audits high risk all of that so it isn’t it isn’t just license holders that are impacted safe banking would change the landscape and Save A Lot of money for many many businesses in this in this environment yeah I just wish I could use my [ __ ] credit card sometimes like it would be I would have to be very responsible about it but she will tell you never dip your credit card in a dispensary the the the problem is the hurdle is there are a lot of and it’s the it’s necessity of the market exactly it’s the necessity of the marketplace and it’s also some maybe not so leg legitimate players in the space Oh hey I can come in and figure out how to set up credit card processing for this dispensary and I’m going to charge them a crazy amount of money and I only have to make it for seven months and then they can go go get a different service and I’ve made enough money it’s worth it to me but if you ever look at your bank statement and a purchase that you made says groceries or um clothing or it’s something that isn’t really what you bought right that’s wrong that’s fraud that’s that’s credit card fraud oh wow so the hurdle is Visa and MasterCard have both said you may not process cannabis based transactions on our systems on our rails so the challenge in that space is providers creating compliant ways and mechanisms to process those transactions some of them are very legitimate some of them are very not we we’ve come across and we’ve done just observational audits on you know uh security fee or um secrecy fee I think was one of them that somebody was charging a secrecy fee on their ATM transactions at their dispensary if that’s not a red flag then you’re not paying interesting now does that MasterCard thing you were talking to ex talking about extend to like I won’t you know name any names but I’ve gone to dispensaries and I can use my MasterCard debit that’s the difference so that’s debit so it’s the difference between debit and credit so you think of if I’m putting in my PIN number that’s an a transaction gotcha is that like on a certain rail yes that’s the separate rails if you just like you can’t swipe your credit card to buy a lottery ticket well I don’t think you can for a long time you could not you cannot buy a lottery ticket you cannot gamble using your credit card Visa Master Card they don’t allow it wow same with cannabis you cannot use a Visa or MasterCard credit card mhm to purchase yeah you should let’s not rack up credit card dead on weed and well that that was that’s why I’m kind of glad you can’t right now CU that’s what I’d be doing right so but the but there are a number of solutions out there so there are the ones that are using a debit things like that there are others I can’t remember the name of them but every dispensary has an ATM in the lobby too agreed right an A and an ATM is stand you know Standalone you are taking cash out debit your your account getting cash to make your purchase um there are also I don’t know how prevalent they are right now but there were a lot in the market um last year at Nan that were going with like the gift card approach so I fund I go to my local dispensary they have their program I put $50 on my account so I’m doing a direct a from my checking or savings account into my account with ABC dispensary and then I’ve got that money basically on a gift card with them and then they’re they’re charging against that so there’s there’s a number of different there’s a number of different things out there the thing that I always encourage people is ask your processor if you can get a letter that says we recognize and approve that you are processing cannabis transactions if they get Squishy about that you maybe need to look into it if they are not right if they are not ready to give you a letter or they get nervous if you’re asking for that kind of thing look a little deeper be a little bit aware gotcha and what’s going on sorry for the brief tangent but what’s going on when you scan the debit at the terminal I’m not doing it at the ATM or they like they say they’re running it as an ATM and they even tell me you’ve got an ATM transaction fee at the end of the night are they like like is Cash falling out of an ATM or like what’s going on no basically what they’re doing is they use a service provider that has coded in the background that it works like an ATM okay so instead of you going up to the ATM at CVS to get cash to go buy you know your cookies and your soda and your pharmacy at CVS or going to the ATM in the lobby of the dispensory you’re doing it there at the counter some of them are I have not looked into those lately at the early onset like the first Nan that we went to four years ago I went home and researched every one of them and 50% were non-compliant um I think more and more people are becoming aware and a little more educated and I think the I think the market is maturing that people are understanding that there has to be a compliant well and people with a proven product and a proven process are going to be still be in business r fla it’s you know it’s like with anything if something doesn’t quite seem right look into it if something doesn’t quite sound right if it seems too good to be true it probably is if this guy’s charging you high fees and the next guy comes along and says oh well I can do it for 3% that’s probably too good to be true yeah yeah um what what are some other things that we might not be thinking about or that I haven’t brought up already that cannabis businesses you know it seems like a lot of the talk is around 280e I mean is that it or are there other weird things that you have to 280e is Big because of the financial impact that immediately Cuts your margin like you have you you you just don’t have as much margin to have profit because 280e is so large I see I’m mixing two topics you’ve got 280e which would be the which would help that but then you’ve got safe banking which would help the part where you can actually use Banks is that right yes and you know and then there are the other components of insurance payroll processing um for example you can have your books on QuickBooks but you cannot process payroll on QuickBooks you cannot QuickBooks is not Canabis friendly right you you cannot process um card transactions through QuickBooks so if you send an invoice to somebody they can’t they cannot use the they cannot use QuickBooks internal mechanism to pay that invoice with a card M um it’s just it’s a compliance it’s a risk and some businesses are okay with that some are not yeah he asked what’s the thing that we’re not thinking about or that he’s not asking about and you’re missing the obvious answer just coming off a tax season is that it doesn’t matter if you haven’t made any money it doesn’t matter you have to file your taxes if you’re a business and we come across this so much with Canabis businesses that are new and this is their third you know they got their license when the licenses came out in 2020 and they’ve been struggling and trying to get everything together and they’ve been trying to get Capital they’ve been trying to get a location they’re trying to make it through to get those doors open and we get you know we get a call or we have a and and they haven’t filed any taxes and they’re like well I haven’t made any money and right and taxes aren’t just about making money so I always say the IRS wants to know what you’re doing if you’re making money they obviously want to know because they want their share if you’re not doing anything they want to know that and if you’re losing money as businesses start start up and get moving a lot of them have a few years of loss they also want to know that sure um because you register for an EIN because you set up your business the IRS knows you’re there it’s not like when you do you know I always say a tupperware you know if you’re a tupperware lady the IRS doesn’t know who all the Tupperware ladies are the IRS knows who the license holders are the state knows who the license holders are and you need to work with your tax professional we always say you know people people will say we don’t need an accountant yet because we’re not making any money you need an accountant at the same time that you need an attorney because you want to make sure that you are keeping on top of those things that you are compliant they’re they are guidelines around there are some exceptions when you don’t have to file a tax return depending on what your entity structure is depending on what your specific situation is but the idea that we didn’t make any money so I don’t have to file taxes not true is not is not true in most situations gotcha because they want to know yeah yeah well and from a 280e perspective now that it looks like rescheduling is going to happen we want to make sure that people have taxes filed so that if there’s the opportunity to go back and re captured depending you know if 280e oh I see goes into effect this calendar year can we go back to January 1st can we can you amend anything can you go back to you need an accountant who’s keeping track of all that stuff because if it drops before the election or if it drops this calendar year it may be back to January 1st and a lot of people could save this year’s money right and we don’t we don’t really know that that’s some of we don’t know what we don’t know we don’t know how it’s going to roll out we don’t know what it’s going to look like but it it’s you know it’s always positioning yourself so that you hopefully have options yeah well damn I feel like that was a really big gem right there that people I could feel like I could clip that moment cuz that’s something that I feel like a lot of people may not be thinking about to to both of your points you know it’s like especially here in Illinois when people are just getting started so it’s like they might not be they might be thinking well we just got started right you know and it’s like you’ve been in business for 4 years you just you just finally got your product you got your do got your doors open but that doesn’t mean you just started your business yeah that’s that is crazy that is crazy so well thank you any anything else like just like I say complications or anything like let me ask you this the one of the first reports I ever saw when weed became legal in Colorado like I think it it’s like I I probably look at it through rose-colored glasses but it just like I just remember it birthing what we are seeing now you know and one of the reports that they discussed was of course cannabis is an all cash business and so there’s these like at the time there were these like security companies that were contracted to like transport cash and it you know they’re they’re all gunned up and a lot of the interesting part just a quick side note on the report was like a lot of them were like former military or police and what they were saying was like it’s crazy cuz I used to be on the other side of these deals like I’d be busting deals like this now I’m helping like to bring the cash and you know everything else yes so yeah there are still um depending on this the volume of cash that you transact large dispensaries do have armored trucks that come on whatever cycle that they need to pick up their money and take it to a Federal Deposit Federal Reserve Depository location their money might not go to their regular Bank it may go to a Federal Reserve deposit location that then Banks that cash and reports it to their actual bank got um it really depends on how much cash transaction you’re doing if you have those those debit options if you’ve got electronic payment options um as those are becoming more prevalent I think cash is Cash usage is decreasing but there’s always going to be people that it it is a highly cash business high high volume of cash and this is my comedic question um for the episode I always like to try to be funny from time to time I mentioned Ozark earlier I really feel like if Ozark was uh set like if they just waited to film the first season one of the things the birds would have done in Missouri is they would have bought a dispensary because the whole show was about finding all cash businesses exactly yes yes so they would had the the strip club the restaurant the casino the casino they had the casino in the last season yeah yeahi Missouri got some things right about cannabis but we’ve had some conversations with people that said Missouri is seeing some of the same struggles at Illinois seeing especially with the small licenses micro so yeah I’ve heard I heard they had a real good start and uh you know that now maybe there are supply shortages well it’s it’s it’s mirroring what happened to Illinois the msos control the market the micr licenses even though they have this captive Marketplace between the cultivators and the microl licens dispensaries they don’t have the capital to get open I mean they’re facing the same financing struggles that every lensey is facing and they just can’t get up and get running and they don’t have they have the supply chain set up but not all components of the supply chain are active right gotcha so interesting it’s crazy to see this all play out and speaking of seeing some of this play out um I wanted to ask you all what Finance is like for a hemp business is it just just to get to Brass tax is it just like normal um yes no so it does not have all of these things are regulated all of these things um hemp is probably more normal than it’s absolutely more normal than cannabis but closer to um standard business typical business typal but they they have additional excise tax they have additional um H taxes based on the product that you’re selling so it’s just it’s a different component and again on that topic even if we even if we get rescheduled from one to three that doesn’t make it immediately easier it’s just a different set of compliance there will be regulation there will be you know not knowing what that’s going to look like there’s a different set of Regulation there’s a different set of compliance to to keep up with um which is some of what what hemp is dealing with now they have different different levels of compliance different components of compliance phac Pharmacy the same way Pharmaceuticals have different compliance FDA all of those kinds of things so it’s going to be really interesting to see what the landscape looks like how this rolls out how does that impact people what happens with the hemp with the farm bill yeah yeah that definitely isn’t a crazy like whatever something’s obviously going to happen and who knows what it’s going to be but at least as it stands now like I had Charlie backel on the show and one of the things that he was saying is they have access to traditional banking can accept credit cards can be listed on the stock exchange yes um that industry can’t possibly compete um with an identical product truly identical being sold at a store that doesn’t have to pay for a state license doesn’t have to comply with state regulatory structures and the cost of those doesn’t have to pay that excise tax can take credit card can raise Capital can go public on us exchanges doesn’t have 28 one way or another these two things have to be reconciled so it might be uh an incredible opportunity that can’t be ignored my desire would still be though then okay whatever it is if your business is in that realm you have to accept and incorporate the obligation to be responsible and respectable because if you’re not then all you’re going to do is is make the naysayers right entrench them in their position and stifle the opportunity to get the reform that all of us want for cannabis I speak with Charlie backel about hemp license limitations hom grow for all and More in episode 39 of the coal memo it’s crazy when I look at hemp when I consider hemp and in comparison to cannabis to THC licensed cannabis is that when you have cannabis yes you have your diff you have your licenses you got your dispensary people you got your cultivation people you got your manufacturers and even within those groups you have your big msos and then you have your small licenses your social Equity people in hemp the the spectrum is just so wide and there’s so many people in this industry cannabis is very public facing and that you it’s hard to be anonymous in cannabis but it seems like it’s very easy to be anonymous in hemp and to be doing things in hemp I don’t want to say shady I don’t want to but there’s a lot more going on him in him that we don’t see and that we don’t understand I feel like well I think some of it is just that’s not where the focus is and the microscope isn’t on it um any I mean with any industry I think there’s I I think there’s a lack of Regulation that lends itself to an unfamiliarity of the process and the product that personally concerns me mhm I feel with cannabis it being regulated and tested and everything it feels like a much safer alternative it’s it yes it is a it is much more regulated on the Cannabis side than the hemp side and the other thing with hemp is there are I mean there’s the industrial use of hemp there are there are so many other things with hemp not just the consumption aspect of hemp that needs to be absolutely I think that will be another large component of whatever comes about with the farm bill right right um I was trying to take notes uh cuz you touched on like three different points I’m going try to I’m try to get to so anonymity behind hemp licensing I actually I mean it’s open licensing so what the deal is is that it’s hard to know what these companies are right like uh you know these companies pop up day by day you have some trustable ones that like put their name behind it like this many many many very good him companies and people in him right with good product there are a lot of weird ones like I’ve got this video that if I can find it quickly I’ll try to show you and I’ll put it in the podcast as well so people can see it there are things going on that that are definitely concerning and I think that we should have at the very least the same testing and labeling standards for these hemp products yeah you know what you’re consuming correct um and and but so uh that was one of the points I wanted to address Cannabis Testing as as it stands right now is not perfect the Chicago times has done it but it’s a start and I during the episode I referenced an investigation by the Chicago Sun Times in case you missed it I did an episode with the journalists behind this investigation I’ll have that episode of my podcast Linked In the show notes for this episode if you’d like to check it out and learn more the headline was what’s in Illinois weed sometimes contaminants sometimes testing finds you can also check out episode number 59 of the Cole memo which I’ll have Linked In the show notes that episode features Dr Bob Miller from act Laboratories they are a Cannabis Testing Lab in fact you might recognize them from the label on the legal products you may have obtained from your local dispensary check out episode number 59 to find out more about the issues that exist with Cannabis Testing during this conversation I sort of Trail off on this idea so I’d like to take this time to elaborate on what I’d like to say or rather what I meant to say I say something to the effect of it’s not perfect but it’s a start I think I stand by those words it seems like hemp operators have agreed to being tested at the same standards as cannabis operators in fact I’ve been told by some that they use the same exact Labs already so why not ultimately the debate around hemp comes down to licens limitations while you might read about the public safety concerns in the headlines the actual debate really centers around license limitations you can learn more about that in episode 96 of the coal memo there’s a few episodes we’ve done with the Illinois hemp growers association on this exact topic think that’s as long as everybody’s in the same process even if that process is flawed as long as everyone is subject to that process like what the hell is that oh jeez yeah so that that doesn’t need to to be happening I don’t think that’s good at all like what the hell is that on the fingers yeah and that’s the type of [ __ ] that I don’t think should be if it’s going to happen it needs to be tested and we figure out what the hell that is because I’ve never seen anything like that in all of my ears of smoking I think looking if we fast forward on descheduling or res I keep saying descheduling nobody’s going to Des not no reschedule not in the next decade or two but rescheduling is I think it’s it’s going to be a a model so close to what like liquor stores are now you know that it’s going to be regulated but it’s going to be regulated at the point of you know purchase obviously during the manufacturing and processing point but I don’t think that there’s any outcome of this rescheduling that makes it harder for people to walk into a place like this with cash and buy cannabis that they’re not going to involve a doctor in a prescription and more bureaucracy hopefully they don’t right I mean the there doesn’t need to be more checks in the system than than there are now right the goal needs to be a way for people to be able to act accessibility balanced with regulation yeah and we’re not we’re not going to touch on the Omnibus one but medical patients need to be able to go anywhere they want and buy anything at any dispens I mean that’s the most ridiculous thing about all this but yeah that’s a different part yeah we can yeah we and so um the other point you brought up though anonymity behind the hemp the one thing I will say that sucks about Illinois cannabis law as it stands is you can’t find out who’s behind these license holders like you if you do foyer requests the Chicago Tribune I believe took the state of Illinois to court I don’t know whereever where that ever went but it’s like under lock and key I’ve done some foyer requests that ultimately get denied because you they like yeah they will not reveal who are these owners are and they have I wanted to quickly cite what I was referring to with regard to confidentiality and cannabis licensing on May 3rd 2020 the Chicago Tribune reported marijuana entrepreneurs are starting to rake in millions of dollars a month in Illinois as customers line up to buy newly legal weed but who’s profiting from those sales remains secret Regulators say state law bars the release of almost all information business have to submit to get lucrative licenses to grow or sell cannabis as a result the public can’t see records that could show whether pot businesses have questionable funding sources or ties to unsavory people that’s proven problematic in other state regulated Industries such as gambling where Revelations of reputed mob ties have sent officials scrambling concerns about a lack of transparency came up last year the reports referring to the year of 2019 before the passage of the law that re that legalized recreational pot sponsors Senator Heather stains and state representative Kelly Cassidy vowed to quote make ownership data completely accessible end quote despite that pledge their bill passed with a confidentiality provision that the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional regulation cited in denying the Tribune’s open records request for application and ownership information about marijuana dispensaries the state is applying similar secrecy to cultivation businesses if you’d like to learn more about the history of cannabis in Illinois go to the memo.com slist and check out our series on the history of cannabis in Illinois of course just to play their side of it they say hey we are selling federally illegal substances we’d prefer our information not be out there when we first got into canabus accounting and we were looking for clients we thought we wanted to know who these CEOs were and these board people on these big companies and these big msos because they were the ones that are in business and had shops open and were making money and just by like she said four Nan conventions and we went to Lucky Leaf in Kansas City and you you know we attend Jason’s events when he has those you know this is a an industry that’s based on a community of people and and getting out there and meeting people and having conversations and listening to their problems and you know getting on phone calls with them hey I got a phone call coming up can you just sit in the background and just listen to make sure that this person’s not you know selling me something or trying to steal money from me I mean we do that a lot right and it’s very relationship based it is you know and I I hadn’t really thought about this but for legacy for people that have been in the Legacy market and it was a few years ago that we had this conversation boy it’s like nobody’s nobody’s going to like when we have a discovery call or we have an initial call with somebody we’re like tell us about your revenues tell us about what your business looks like tell us about you know what are you producing all of these details about their business and money and finances is personal to begin with but people that have been in the Legacy market for so long are like what do you mean we you I don’t keep records like that you want to go prison we don’t talk about that a legacy cultivator somebody’s been growing for 25 or 30 years who now may have a very legitimate position with a you know a grow or something like that we’re like book a shi in mindset that doesn’t exist and that’s that’s stuff that we that’s core information that we need in order to set them set their business up and it just doesn’t exist because had it existed 5 10 years ago that’s the kind of thing that land you in the in the right so it you know a lot of it is relationship building a lot of it is community a lot of it is um and we also find that everybody’s in it together this is a this is a this is a business environment and you know it’s Community Based there are people that are willing to help their quote unquote competitors it’s collaboration it’s not competition and you know we’re seeing more and more of that that that’s just that’s just the landscape of this kind of business more so than others that we’ve seen yeah and that’s I was most excited to talk to you not just because I love these drinks and these products that’s where I come from with uh this topic hemp it’s afforded me this is what I’ve been saying this is River Bluff yeah These Guys these guys put out amazing product yeah yeah it’s great and what I what I say about things like this or the Jane and Marys which they have over there which I buy about a case a month this is hemp Done Right River Bluff is hemp Done Right Kure is hemp done right these are people in Illinois that are running fantastic hemp businesses and would be happy to comply with you know whatever regulations doesn’t make any sense to go in and shut these things down exactly nobody wants that yeah and my my thing that I was telling legislators because I went to Springfield when they were considering passing uh House Bill 4293 which proponents of that bill argued it wasn’t a ban it was simply regulation but really it was limited life licensing of these of accessing these types of products and all I’m saying is uh all I’m saying is that like you were just you both LED with the best points about this whole thing it needs to be tested it needs to be labeled it needs to be ageg gated so that kids can’t get it absolutely and it already is taxed I will say as you pointed out it’s got your local taxes or whatever um but I suppose if it would make people happy that these products were taxed at the same rate as cannabis products so that it went to things like the R3 program or whatever else I guess I’d be open to that I know that cost would be passed to the consumer but there’s also the Tipping Point though of how much do you tax and what does that impact the revenue I mean do you add more tax to bring in more tax dollars but does that cut down the overall net because fewer people are spending money because EV every product has a every person has a price point for their product and that has to include the amount that they pay in tax it would be interesting to do some kind of and it’s maybe out there and I just I haven’t looked it up but what is the case study of the Tipping Point where increasing taxes actually reduces overall tax revenue because people stop buying it because it’s cost prohibitive now it’s like a going to Indiana for cigarettes right like that’s an Illinois thing I’m just saying fireworks yeah fireworks too yeah but I mean I’ve heard that people specifically will go yeah we better get going better plan our trip hey well and we’re in Tilton we’re not we close we’re close knock out two birds with one stone get fireworks and cigarettes at a l firor yeah that’s when you come it it it does really at some degree boil down to the math MH what will the market Bear yeah what will the mar yeah that’s exactly it and if I could the one point I was just trying to make with this is like this it’s afforded me more freedom and access to cannabis than any state-based program ever ever has and what I mean by that is I got these mailed to my front door I paid with my credit card I paid it off at the end of the month but the fact that I was able to put it on for a little bit because I did yeah anyways that’s right there are there are so many parts of the hemp business model that work so well gosh that cannabis would love if they could have access to so again shutting this down doesn’t make any sense but there has to be tighter there you got to rain it in just a little bit more control so anyways um that’s that’s very interesting to hear that that’s another way in which they benefit not only do they have all those cool things and flexibility like being able to mail it across state lines or to our doors or there are technically no dosage Caps or possession limits so I bought like nine cases of this stuff um those are those are all cool things that can’t happen here like we went over into that dispensary we’re all limited for purchase right just seems a little weird and I love that this is what comes with descheduling cannabis um not only those things things but then the tax benefits and all the finance all the things you don’t frankly have to worry about but of course you’re not in the Cannabis business if you’re in the Cannabis business it’s a lot of what you think about almost all the time and I was about to say it’s not like they don’t worry about those things they’re not worried about them now but they’re starting to because like you said earlier it’s becoming a discussion at the federal level thanks to Illinois representative Mary Miller I actually spoke to her husband as well um he obviously isn’t involved in the federal level though he’s a state representative anyways there are two ways like you said in which this landscape could change so just like cannabis just like hemp which of course same plant just vastly different uh regulations uh there there are big changes that that could that could be right around the corner with res scheduling and the farm bill and on both of them it could go 20 different ways and if anybody you said there’s two things that are going to change two things are going to change but how they end up there’s so many permutations and if you talk to anybody and they say they know what’s going to happen they don’t yeah if you ask 10 people you’ll get 10 different or more MH but a point you made earlier I really do believe that you’re you’re on to something it’s some I’ve discussed on the show you said like I don’t think that rescheduling is NE necessarily going to upend everything we’ve done like the building we’re sitting in right now and I I tend to agree because first of all uh I just I don’t foresee that happening what I actually foresee it allowing is just a more direct path to make those schedule three medications which are not anything that we like totally I think the the thing that people would be most familiar with is epid dialects but you’ve got Marinol and then there’s a third one that I can’t think of the the benefits we didn’t talk about obviously are research right right when it goes to schedule 3 there’s money available for research for you know can work on things there are from a business and financing standpoint the obvious benefits are sa for banking 28 yes we talked about those across the Spectrum uh medical research plant research you know product research you know um I just feel like one thing that we’re going to see is it’s kind of like this bifurcated approach where you’ll have that schedule three it’ll be a lot easier to research the plant like you say but you’ll still you’ll have a new coal memo issued it’ll be a Garland memo though from attorney general mer Garland and that’s actually been promised in the past by the way he said hey we’re going to issue a new coal memo and hands off I think I can’t help but wonder if it all happens around this fall because of course that’s when that’s due I will also say the roar backer far Amendment which uh protects uh States from interfering in um medical States that expires this fall I misspoke during this part of the podcast right now I’m displaying my screen you can see that the roar backer far Amendment also known as the roarer blooman hour amendment is legislation that was introduced by US Representative Maurice henchi in 2001 the legislation prohibited the justice department from spending funds to interfere with the implement mentation of State medical cannabis laws the amendment does not change the legal status of cannabis and must be renewed each fiscal year in order to remain in effect the part that I did not misspeak on is the fact that as of March 9th 2024 the rarb backer far amendment is effective through September 30th 2024 I feel like every everything is due this fall and you’re just going states attached to November’s election I keep going on the record saying that it’s important to get out there and vote this November because I think that’s what we’re saying I you to be breaking a story here maybe yeah for anybody that’s under a rock right um we’re getting close um and I want to finish up with my funny story about Jim balushi yes please so Jim was the featured speaker on Friday he gave the the keynote address and Chicago royalty Jim balushi you know he can walk into any restaurant any bar in the city he been mentioned during his remarks he was having dinner with Governor pritzer later in the week later in the week big fan of big fan of the governor I would say his remarks were very very personal they were at times emotional MH this is a man that very much believes in the power of the plant and he is very much a cultivator he’s a grower he is somebody that has spent time worrying about these keeping these things alive keeping his girls alive he refers to to him as the girls as his girls and the the remarks and and there was he didn’t have a lot of prepared remarks went almost immediately to questions from the audience and there were some good questions there was there was some good there were some good questions asked there was some back and forth but when you get into these into these events sometimes people like to tell their own story they want to hear themselves talk they want this person up there to hear their story and they want to feel the empathy that they want through validation and we we were getting a couple of those yeah and again this is he’s very passionate and he you know he’s he’s telling stories about encounters he’s having with people and with veterans and everything and it was it was very heavy it was it was very the room was very very heavy and I’m I’m the smartass I’m I’m the guy in the room that’s going to crack the inappropriate joke that’s me that’s always been me I worked as a stand-up comedian I I I’m going to try to make a funny and this is a funny guy this is a guy who is legitimately funny and so I was kind of sitting there trying to get get called on right I looked like you know and they probably thought this is just a guy that wants to hear his voice this is this guy’s going to tell us his story right but I wanted to set him up I wanted him I wanted you know let’s love have a little fun you’re a comedian right you know half the people in this room are you know let’s have a little fun and so when they finally called on me I said why don’t you tell us your funniest consumption story you know you’re somebody that probably smokes cannabis with some people maybe a celebrity that would surprise us you know I asked this guy to tell us a funny story and you would have thought I asked him for his pin number he had no interest in answering that question um countered with you want to know how many celebrities I’ve slept or how many women I’ve slept with I mean immediately turned it that way and and then he told like a of like a vaudvillian like Catskills comedian joke that you know had nothing to do with cannabis nothing to do do with anything you know about an old couple walking on the beach and finding a Genie bottle and everything and I’m like who doesn’t take the opportunity to tell a funny story about getting high yeah when you’re when and I get it if you don’t want to give somebody up if you don’t want to name names have a story loaded where it’s it’s Willie Nelson sure nobody’s not going to care even if it’s not true to say oh it’s Willie Nelson and then tell a story about who it actually is but just say it was Willie you got to if you’re a comian appearing at a cannabis convention I need you to have a funny story locked and loaded to tell and it didn’t seem like didn’t seem like he he came with the funny story and I was kind of but but I think some of that it was a non-controlled environment he doesn’t know who’s filming he doesn’t know who’s recording had their camera out so I get it he didn’t say oh yeah you know Britney spe you know whatever whoever just claimer he did not say he said well the video guys behind us we were like in the back row the video guys behind us had they were told no audio they could shoot b-roll only but they couldn’t record I was actually going to ask afterwards if like Ambrose event was uh recorded cuz I wanted to watch some some of them were okay um but specifically for Jim balushi we overheard them saying no no audio recording oh interesting he came out you know he came out with the harmonica he played he played a little blues riff on the harmonica I mean he he played the part and he’s he’s very compassionate about it was there any talk he said there was a lot of questions I know he had uh recently commented about taxes were too high did anybody ask him about like something like that he did and that was with the reference to dinner with the governor is he said we’re having those conversations we’re hoping that there is some relief in fact I’m having dinner with the governor later this week kind of in that vein and in that topic um but somebody asked him hemp question and he acted like hemp was Kryptonite he said well he said I’m not educated enough he his space is he is working in his own space and he said that was a space that I didn’t want to I didn’t know enough about to be proficient in and I don’t want to comment it on it because I don’t know enough to be proficient so you know it was the it was the responsible educ educated answer because he isn’t doesn’t feel educated enough to make a yeah I’d prefer people that don’t know what they’re talking about on the topic to just not speak on exactly L right exactly yep yep and again Chicago royalty I mean he stuck around he took pictures he sign autographs he you know and he and I did not approach him afterwards but there was a lot of people around and maybe in a in a more personal environment he would tell them I just felt like the moment needed a little funny you were looking for levity I was yeah and I felt like I threw him the ball and he’s like he may have been too like like CU you if it was that heavy in the room and I know how it can be like this my show often I’ve heard it described as uh sometimes people say I’m negative about it it’s like no I I just think there’s a lot of room to grow and it’s I there are little shortcomings that it has nothing to do with how Illinois is doing it’s almost like a universal uh approach I mentioned possession limits earlier uh purchase limits and possession limits are both just stupid things just to be blunt about it because purchase limits are just ridiculous I should be able to buy as much as I want but the but the fact that it’s tied to a possession limit and by exceeding that possession limit the answer is still the criminal law like that’s so silly and that’s basically the case in every state it really has nothing to do with Illinois you know yeah I just wish we’d be better since we had such a equity Focus again you hope that with rescheduling these are the steps that we will begin to see there will be you know decriminalization efforts and expungement we expect a lot of expungement you know we hope that there’s Education and Research you know it’s it’s incremental but I mean the recommendation to reschedule it is the first thing that has happened positive in cannabis ever yeah I mean it’s the it’s the biggest thing since the co memo I would say because because that’s what started this adult use approach so that was the first time the federal government said like hey it’s not that we’re like changing anything but if you fall within this framework and you you know comply with these rules we’re not going to mess with you this is the first time like you say they’ve ever been like Hey we’re gonna we’re going to change our approach a bit so so it’s getting busy here at Molly’s joint is Friday night here in Tilton it is man well um anything else that we didn’t necessarily touch on the G I don’t think so we this was this was a good talk she’s always nervous about stuff like this and she’s always afraid I’m a typical accountant I’m the introvert you seemed comfortable so you seemed super comfortable so were you ner were you nervous through it or at the onset but I mean give me something I know that I am comfortable talking about and it’s right yeah Heather’s recently been named to the board of directors of Illinois women in cannabis she is now the treasurer of that organization and she laments having to be in that bright of a spotlight but she’s brilliant and the organization is better having her yeah congrats thanks congrats yo that’s awesome well both of you um I just want to say again thank thank you for coming thanks for having us this has been lots of fun yeah for folks that want to connect and might need your assistance if you’re in the business for example again those links are in Vineyard yeah Vineyard accounting. net but look we’re in LinkedIn LinkedIn is the place to go when you’re looking for cannabis people and uh we’ve got Instagram I posted all the pictures that we took up at Nan and shamberg and uh well you guys want a couple of joints to take home with I’ll take a couple sure there you go one for each of you appreciate it absolutely man absolutely absolutely well looking forward to the next time we do this I think it’d be cool to do it here yeah yes yes for sure this won’t be our last visit sweet well folks I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did looking forward to the next time we do it so take care thank you
The Cole Memo 
Leave a comment