Episode 79 – Behind The Pole – Torrin Richelle

During this episode, Torrin Richelle returns to the episode to talk about her new book “Behind the Pole”. You can purchase the book here.

Watch the episode on Patreon here
Watch the episode on Youtube here
Stream the episode on Soundcloud here
Stream the episode on Spotify here
Stream the episode on Apple Podcast here
Stream the episode on X here

Links mentioned during show

The auto-generated transcript is available below.

yeah I’m I’m really excited to be sitting back down with you it’s cool to be able to continue this series um and for our listeners since we’re on the air right now I just want to say that if you haven’t checked out my series on the legal sex industry in America you can check it out at thecool memo.com seex We are continuing that Series today and I am very excited to uh announce and remind you all that we still have more series or more episodes in the tank on that series I will just keep it short by saying that um it may not surprise any of you that this series resulted in a little bit of drama maybe some legal threats and so much more and that’s my teaser uh for the future episodes I have um an episode with uh a few episodes with the person that connected you and I Toren um that will be releasing and I have uh some more episodes that we’ll be releasing but one more time before we get started I just want to say if you want to see the first time that Toren came on the show and the other episodes we’ve released just go to the memo.com you can see we’ve released over 14 episodes on this series and if you did check out torrin’s episode You Will recall that I uh broke the news you know that Toren actually released her book um which I’m actually holding right now I read for the second time and uh I’m so excited to be able to talk to her about it today I just want to say uh well I’ll have a link in the podcast description if you’d like to get your own copy they’re available at many different retailers so if you have a preferred one you can go with them I’ll have that link in the podcast description Toren thank you so much for sitting back down with me today hey no problem yeah so how would you like to uh reint introduce yourself I’ll give you the space please reintroduce yourself uh to my listening audience well our first podcast was because I was a shift manager at some brothel around outside of Carson City Nevada for four years and I gave him some insight on my experience there as a shift manager and it was a actually very therapeutic considering what I went through and after that during that time I was writing a book about because I’m a former dancer an exotic dancer and I did it for like nine years full-time and three more years parttime 12 years total and my daughter did it after me um and I just wanted to write a book about it you know the way that we’re treated we were treated you know in the club outside the club and you know my side I was trying to support my daughter doing it and I I got you know I couldn’t really have a relationship with a with a man or you know and I wanted to write about it about what we go through and it’s amazing because when people ask what I did I was always honest and I said well I’m a dancer I danc at this club you know I didn’t see anything wrong with it but people would shun away and and shy away and and just give me a hard time and it’s like now I’m a bartender but when when I tell people I’m a bartender it’s not like they pull me aside and ask me to make them drinks and stuff so I don’t understand you know some of the treatment and I’d like to see it better and the only I could describe what was going on was to write it in a book so I wrote a book I was very Frank very to the point I did not make it long it’s barely a hundred Pages you know because you could take all my situations and times them by 100 you know and I just want people to see and maybe other girls in the industry can you know see they’re not alone other people can see it too you know and and I’ll I’ll describe the cover a little bit the reason for the cover it shows a bunch of men with their hands up in the air and they kind of depicted a shadow of me and I’m kind of squatting because it’s like me saying oh no I can’t take this anymore you know it’s kind of supposed to be a humorous thing you know like I don’t want to do this yeah yeah I when I first saw well when I first saw it I didn’t think anything of it but after reading it what I saw was like it was almost almost like you like deep in thought like you’re about to do this dance but it’s almost like this moment you had where you’re like what the [ __ ] am I doing typ I know it was like who it was like who benefits from this yeah and I just want to say you know I want to give you plenty of space to talk about whatever you wanted to talk about today and I know that you had planned to maybe even read some excerpts which I’m really excited for y um I I just want to say that you did a really good job of painting a a picture I’ve only been in one I’m going to call it it you know gentleman’s club strip club whatever you want to call it I’ve only been in one in my entire life and I don’t remember much about it because I didn’t plan to go there it wasn’t a planned thing I honestly thought it was a pizza place and I just had to go to the bathroom that’s how I ended up there um and and I just stayed for like kind of the just because I was like whoa this is what this is like I I went to the bathroom and you know going in I see the catwalk and the big stage and everything and people dancing and I was just like wow I’ve never been in into something like this so I I stayed a bit so I’ve always had that in my head um but like again that that image quickly waned it was a one-time experience so to read this like you describe many different clubs and I felt like I went there in in a weird way you know well good I just told my experience I I told you know I started out I I was in the Army and I got out of the army because I had a baby and I couldn’t like be Deployable anymore I was married to a guy who was cheating on me all the time he didn’t really want to be married and I had to come up and when he left me I kind of had to come up with a plan and I found out he was loitering strip bars and I went into one to catch him that’s really all I’m going to tell because you can read the book and find the rest and when I talk to the girls and stuff I’m like oh wow they’re human and and I looked around saw what they were wearing and I’m likew they wear just as much or less as I do when I go into a nightclub and go dancing and they had all these rules like the guys can’t touch the girls you know there’s you know you had to keep a distance and keep it clean and I thought this isn’t bad at all yeah um so a couple months after we split up I I kind I had a day job I had no choice but to take a second job and that’s how I got into it and stayed with it for years um it wasn’t easy there was a lot of abuse but I stayed with it for the money and the fact that I couldn’t find a I was going to school too but I couldn’t find a job that would cover everything you know and and I had a daughter you know and I’d have to stay home with her a lot too when she was sick and that job just gave me that kind of Freedom at least and you’re an independent contractor so I made my own schedule and you know it it was good for the time you know it did what it was supposed to do yeah yeah and I just have to say one of the things that stood out to me that you just mentioned and I even had noted that I wanted to bring up were the rules and and I don’t mean to you know if you have an idea of somewhere else to start we can definitely return to the rules but I’ll just keep it short by saying the rules reminded me a lot of the rules that I heard about in the brothel I was like oh this sounds familiar and the Str too like the big sister yeah there’s rules well my big sister lasted about two minutes like I said in the book she wasn’t really wasn’t in and and when I W went into dance I didn’t go in with anyone I didn’t know anyone I just walked in blindly you know and because I needed money and I even lied said I danced before so you know it’s just that that’s how it all started and I kept doing it because I had to leave my day job the boss was dangling a carrot in front of my nose you know typical office jobs I’ll give you a raise if you do this blah blah blah and I’m like you know I can’t even afford daycare and rent working for you so why am I gonna work for you 40 hours a week I took it was in Seattle so I had to take a bus for an hour to get there and get home and and that’s how that’s how it started so it seemed all great in the beginning and it’s really not a bad industry you know I wrote about the downsides of it because people don’t know all all you hear is when people say dancer oh they make great money you know but they don’t know what what happens yeah yeah and I will say yeah this this EP this is uh I I would say maybe mostly about the downsides but you do have a section at the end of the book with the positives with some of the positives so I think that that was I think that was fair of you to to not you know just talk about the the negative side it was it was good to see a little bit of why you chose it and why you stayed in it because that’s of course the question that comes up whenever you read this yeah um and it seems like it’s that so yeah it it was just convenient and easy I mean there’s not a woman alive you know a straight woman alive who doesn’t fantasize about you know being uh desirable to men and dancing and having men just all over you and throw money maybe not the but just to be desired and that that lurs a lot of people in I mean we all have that fantasy and I did it and it was cool at first but it becomes a job like any other job you know you got somebody controlling you telling you when to come in what to do what you can’t do yeah it’s a job but you know one thing about it I would say is that this job the lines seem more blurred than other jobs you know an office job it seem the lines are very rigid you know yeah all your clothes everybody’s clothes are on yeah and you can’t talk about certain things right right good point yeah and you know it it they called us independent contractors but at the time they put us on a schedule and if we didn’t come in we’d get find our house rate whatever it was for that club you know we’d have to pay him that and and pay probably a fine on top of it you know if you couldn’t come in even if you called in some clubs would charge you back rent at had one Club my back rent was up to over ,000 dollar because I got really sick there was black mold in the dressing room and I had asthma really bad and it got out of control I almost died didn’t have insurance went to the hospital just racked up more bills and came back with a lot of back rent you know explain that for people what what do you mean when you say backround I know what you mean because I read the rules well you pay to work there right it’s not you don’t go in there and get a paycheck and you pay to work there like back in the 90s when I worked there most of the rents were $40 a night we could work that off and pay it off we could pay it at the door or if a guy bought us a drink they were usually $10 a drink that would be $10 off our rent so we had to sit with the guys and buy drinks to to get free rent you know and then we tip everyone and for couch dance table dances at the time were $5 a table dance most of the time they tip more couch dances were $12 to start and we’d have to give $2 to the house for 12 for couch dance so every song when we’d be doing couch dances you’d have the the DJ or the manager walking around with a checklist looking at our name and checking our name on how much we owe it the end of the evening you know it was always controlled and that was that was how we worked there they told us that we were independent contractors and we had to um we were renting their Hall and had to go by their rules renting their homeall yeah and the reason for my book was I’m trying to point out that um laws are broken every day in those places and uh it’s the girls that pay the ERS have lawyers the staff doesn’t care nothing happens but these poor young women who are supporting kids are going to college you know or just trying to live you know supporting a whole family they’re they’re the ones with the record and it’s called like prostitution when it’s not you know it’s not fair and a lot of these clubs are structured to where you’re manipulated into doing you know going over the line is what I call it you know I I called it in the book Dirty Dancing Yeah yeah I found that part profound it was like you know yes there are rules but the way that it’s structured it’s almost made to encourage women to break those rules in order to to make it so that they can make a little bit of money yeah and if one girl does it we all have to do it or we leave with nothing we leave in the hole and you know and this is my like I said again I’ll reate for other dancers because I’m sure there’ll be someone that comes on oh well I didn’t see that but again if anyone reads the pref preface in a book that’s my story you know and what I’ve seen yeah right right yeah it’s it’s truly insane too to hear about some of the you know not only the working conditions which I wanted to mention that because you mentioned mold I think you you pointed to you know kind of The Moldy conditions being constantly in Smoke stuff like that yeah yeah there was that he said you ended up in the emergency room actually yeah that’s when I discovered I had asthma one night it it excuse me it built up built up and I kept getting sick I I couldn’t work couldn’t do my shift I was in the dressing room a lot sitting in the black mold because I didn’t know anybody better and I went there and I had um asthma so I had to take a few days off and those few days off I didn’t get paid of course got behind on everything you know if you’re not there working you know the cash you make is is all you get after all the payouts and stuff yeah yeah and I I hope this isn’t one of the excerpts you had plan to read um you just reminded me of of this part um it’s on page 44 and it’s it’s talking about what you just mentioned it is the owner and the staff that forces girls into doing illegal stuff by scheduling too many girls on one shift was that one that you were gonna read no um do you mind if I read the rest of that quote real quick oh you can read it uh so yeah it’s the owner and the staff that forc the girl into doing illegal stuff by scheduling too many girls on one shift finding them for silly things shaming them if they do not make enough money to pay their house fee it’s the dancer who has a police record as a prostitute and the owner may get a fine and walk away squeaky clean that’s just it’s crazy that it again once again and this is the point of this series often times it it seems that it’s the sex worker that walks away with a criminal record and it’s like hold on a second who who was hurt because when I think criminal I think of somebody who hurts somebody else right well you get like in Seattle they had a raid I wasn’t working that night thank God but the lights went on and they had undercover cops in there and they’d have two at a time so one could buy the dance and the other one could watch and then after they get enough evidence they turn the lights on they handcuff the girls that they want and and they go to jail sometimes the owner will bail them out if they don’t owe back at rent you know but they have to go to court and get all the and sometimes they will send a ticket in the mail anonymously because you had to register in Seattle you had to register your stage name with the police department and fingerprint and everything else that’s crazy I didn’t know that that sounds like that sounds like the brothel uh the brothel they made us get a business license a master business license fingerprint they wanted to know our stage name and they had it all on record wow um one thing you mentioned that that I wanted to ask you about what what I’ve got another layer to this question but I just want to start here what what did you mean what would it often look like if a cop had enough on a sting like would they like be like hey can I get a hand job or something like that and if you said yes or like here’s an example I didn’t put in my book one time in Seattle uh I was dancing and I was making my round and my stage name was Shell B and there was two guys they pulled me over asked me for a dance halfway through the dance I kind of caught on because they were looking at each other watching one with the other one was way too interested in the dance he was watching so I backed off a bit and I told him that my name was Kelly and and so I just did the dance said Thank you took the money and then that evening uh the police department called the manager and asked for who is this girl named Kelly wearing all white and and the manag just said well we don’t have a Kelly here because it sounds like Shelby on stage you know with the DJ and stuff but and and everybody wears white you know and that was it but that was before I moved so I didn’t worry about it but what they would do is you’d have one taking the dance and if you charged extra and it was stupid little things like you look at you you gaze in their eyes more than 30 seconds it’s considered sexual in prostitution and you know they trip you up and the other guy would be watching you know just eyeballing the whole thing so you kind of knew and and you know then they’d send you a illegal dancing or prostitution ticket whatever in the mail because they had your address wow that is you know that is crazy that just seems like the weakest way to get somebody with like a crime like it seems like you could take them to court but they’re praying on some of the weakest sometimes in our society they’re they’re praying on the women not the club they keep the club open so the reason I asked that like I said there were layers to that question in illino in Illinois right now there is a push to I believe Chang the term from prostitute to sex worker um there’s also so like the legal term um and then there’s also a push to make it so that cops are not allowed to procure the services of a sex worker during the course of a sting and I don’t know if people knew that but it is completely legal I I guess in many states for a cop to say like yeah give me head I’m going to pay you for it and then you do it and then at a certain point he can say put your hands up you’re under a rest it’s crazy it’s crazy when you really think about it um so that’s why I was asking you I was like did they ever go that far the cop would usually just sit with his hands to his side he didn’t push for anything else okay it was he left it totally us and it was little things like if we got closer than six inches if we sat on his lap and and he happened to to pop a Woody and we grinded on it a minute you know it was stuff like that that they would just note and and find the crap out of us and we wouldn’t be able ble to work at that club for 90 days or whatever and you know it would really screw with us I had a club owner the first one I worked for he said if you ever get popped for Dirty Dancing and you go to court he had some good advice he said request a jury trial they’ll throw it out of the courts you know but I I didn’t stick around there long enough to deal with that Seattle was the strictest Place uh Missouri and Kansas you know they they seem a little more laidback for me interesting you’d think yeah I don’t know why you’d think Seattle would be more relaxed yeah well no but they had a lot of them and I was working for a chain it was called Deja Vu which I did not mention in my book and I was actually gonna ask you about that I had never heard until your book that there I mean of course there’s chains but I never would have assumed yeah they have them all over and Deja Vu had the worst reput ation for for dirtiness it was by the seac airport interesting interesting and and the thing is is um you had to if you’re going to make money in that club because all the girls were being dirty and they I found out that they were tipping the staff to look the other way because I kept doing the littlest medial things you know like bend down and flip my hair in their crotch I wasn’t doing anything on their crotch but I get called to the bar and in trouble well they wanted tips they were funneling they were taking our money to look the other way right and then when I got in trouble I had a girl sitting by me doing a couch dance exposing her whole crotch pulled her thong aside exposed her whole crotch in his face and nothing happened to her but I got in trouble for something stupid you know and that’s when I found out that they wanted my money yeah I thought that part I don’t know if people even realize that or or or know about that that there are these like unspoken rules so there’s not only those literal rules that you get handed but there’s kind of this I don’t even know if it is unspoken I think it is spoken but if again if you’re not on your side of the counter let’s say you know we’re not we’re not aware most people that go to like a a strip club they’re not aware of these rules like that you’re not even allowed to do what you just said for example oh they probably had customers or they they probably had girls there that allow it you know and then we have to pay the price and tell them no yeah do you get what I’m saying though I mean like like like there are literally video games now in Grand Theft Auto you can go to the strip club and there’s like I don’t know for some reason just as a again I’ve only been to one so I just assumed that when you go to a strip club at any moment in time a girl could take her shirt off and show her tits or that that yes if a girl consented you could touch them I didn’t realize all these things were like no like you can you can take your shirt off on stage type of thing like there’s a lot of rules I don’t think people realize that well every County and every state and every city has their own set of rules like for instance Seattle we could uh go on stage and get naked but we had to stay six feet away from the customers and uh when we were on the floor dancing we had to keep our top and bottom on and stay six and away and then in other places like Kansas I had a club where you had to wear pasties only go topless on the stage and they served alcohol and and it was table dance only then on the Missouri side across the border they had the ones that served alcohol and the girls had to sit at a separate table than the guys and the table dances were like you know right in front of you you basically had a girl standing in front of you just wiggling you know it’s it’s wherever you go that the the laws and rules change I never understood it yeah you know it’s different everywhere the ones that have no alcohol is crazy to me like what I can’t I could not believe when I was reading that you said some of them just have juice bars like I think that’s important for my audience to hear like that’s crazy I couldn’t imagine going somewhere and just drinking juice like what yeah well we didn’t I tell you what we used to sneak booze in there and what right we had so many hiding places like uh under the in in the bathroom under the trash liner we had bottles stashed there up in the ceiling under the little uh whatever they call it we had bottles up there stashed on our pants and hairspray bottles it didn’t go away you know it’s just one of the it’s the nature of the Beast alcohol you know I I learned that you read in my book I didn’t know and someone schooled me on it it it’s just how it is if you’re going to you know you deal with so much rejection and and then you got to look bubbly and happy I’m sorry does this light look okay it’s yeah it’s not too bright okay and you got to look bubbly and happy and sometimes you know like the day my divorce was Final I had to go work you know what do you think I did to just you know I didn’t even finish the shift then and you know and guys don’t want to hear your problems you and you have to right almost I tried to be myself but you have to almost create a character you know and and pretty much lie to them pretend that you want them and stuff because you know they don’t go in there to talk to their wives right right yeah that’s that was um I think it’s an interesting part of it like you you you would think all men know that but it works it works on men it seems to work on men like you’d think they they would know like they’re going to tell you what you want to hear you know yeah but and there was all kinds like the there were some good men that came in there I had a lot of regular customers that would have a drink waiting for me or my favorite drink at the table even if I was sitting with another guy I was finishing up they’d be ready for me and I’d just go go over there I mean I did it for a while so I had regulars and and um you did your dances they knew you weren’t going to go home with them but you still had those that were looking for a girlfriend like oh I don’t I don’t want to spend money on you here I want to take you out out of here and yeah you know it’s like you don’t know who I am out of here you know I’m a single mom and I wear sweats all the time and you know and it was it took all kinds and then the fetishes you know that were too cheap to you know go to brothel tried to go in there and get their their little fetishes and you know crazy stuff like that it was it took all I had a guy come in with a roll of quarters one day and he was jerking off in the corner you know I was like I was like I don’t have room in my thong for quarters so I’m going to go to The Bouncer and have him thrown out yeah you know yeah that’s an interesting layer of it for me because it’s interesting how in society seems like everywhere except for Nevada we’ve decided that prostitution is illegal but in everywhere in the United States we’ve got gentlemen’s clubs which are basically like indirect facilitators of prostitution it seems yes and and I got upset because that’s not what that’s not what we were doing I mean if girls wanted to uh meet guys out of there there’s nothing we could do about it but the fact that they it was years later I don’t know if it’s because the state I worked in or the states they didn’t have those little tiny VIP rooms upstairs with a camera that didn’t work you know um whatever we did they’d come and tap on our shoulder if we were doing too much but then they invented these IP rooms and like in in Reno with my daughter I asked them um what do what do they do in these VIP rooms it’s $175 for 15 minutes and they get a cut and that the guy tells me well that’s up to their discretion and then I came in later and had a drink while my daughter was working just to say hi to her I was I was in the area and I asked the bartender as I found out I used to dance with her at in Seattle years ago I didn’t recognize her and she’s like well some people want to just make uh fast money and I’m like that’s not what this is about you know that kind of upset me because you’re breaking laws you know you’re hurting other girls the really good ones that want to work you know the show Girls and that that’s just not fair you know that’s how I felt about it I felt like laws are being broken every day and it’s not cool it hurts other girls you know who who want to work you know get rid of those girlss and make the club smaller and you know just have Dancing Yeah Yeah it’s um it’s crazy and for folks that want to read or or or know about how your daughter comes into the story I will just say pick up the book once again we’ll have the link in the podcast description and I think that’s a really good part of the book uh for you to check out it’s covered uh in many different parts of the book your relationship with your daughter but also like I’m just G to tease it by saying when she learns that you’re in the industry I think that’s a really good teaser right without giving anything away um so unless you want to say more on that so well no uh raising my daughter she had to know I was dancing because I lived in a place where my aunt lived everyone knew I was walking out with a Kaboodle and clothes and what’s a I could probably gole that I was never private about it you know I didn’t want her to do it but she wanted to try it and I said if you’re going to do it be the best I even lend her some of my old C costumes and told her how to how it works I mean she did really well she did better than me you know but she just got entangled in stuff that’s in my book yeah there you go good teaser my apologies for cutting you off I was asking you what Kaboodle was but then I realized I could Google it this is what I see when I see Kaboodle we all had those little plastic well I don’t know when I did it we had these little plastic makeup cases that we carry kind it was a Kaboodle interesting I’ve heard the phrase the kit and Kaboodle I didn’t know what it meant I haven’t seen them in a long time because I haven’t needed one but that’s what we called them little PL you could get them anywhere yeah yeah well hey we’ve been jumping around and and I hope that’s all right with you um I wanted to give you some space though um what what what would you like to tell our audience about I know you like you said you maybe prepared some excerpts I just wanted to give you space well I was going to read two excerpts let me put my glasses on and I I’ll read them to you and you tell me what you think absolutely okay and they’re just little chunks the first one was the spinal straw one club and I’ll read it I had grown weary of this club and the owners looked the other way for everything also I was getting tired after the long drive one hour into my shift I noticed a gentleman getting couch dances from a tiny lady who took her money and walked away he waved to me to come sit with him and offered to buy me a $10 lemonade which was my drink while I was sitting there chatting with him and getting ready to ask him to buy a dance I noticed something under my left thigh I thought nothing of it reached under to move it and even rolled it in my fingers a while while I was engaging with the customer I then looked down at my hand and I saw that I was holding a used condom in my hand the customer didn’t looked too surprised so I threw it down walked into the bathroom washed my hands came back out onto the floor and knew it was time to go before I caught some disease or got caught in a police raid I didn’t bother telling the manager staff what I found because it would not make any difference I was disgusted and felt gross I told the manager I was feeling sick put on my clothes and left to never return does that give you a little H yeah and I I’ll read one more if you don’t mind yeah absolutely ABS I got a couple this was moving forward into my Missouri Club when I worked at that Missouri with you know and so I’ll try to start there was another rule at this club that I could not understand or comply with it was in the VIP booths if a customer purchased a $100 bucket of non-alcoholic champagne from the club they were allowed to touch us anywhere they wanted with no extra charge dances were still $20 for us but we had hands everywhere since this was allowed Miss Moon boots and I’ll go back and say she was the waitress at the time would go in there in front of us and promote touching the girls after all it wasn’t her body they were touching there you go yeah that part after all it wasn’t her body that they were touching I mean it’s a awfully easy for her yeah she was promoting non-alcoholic and it was a juice bar in Missouri non-alcoholic buckets of champagne for these customers I was already getting $20 a dance but now they bought a a bucket of n alcoholic champagne for them and they’re supposed to be able to touch me but I’m not supposed to ask for any more money and that that was really just stupid and I didn’t I didn’t do it I’m sorry and the owner that he he kept saying he was in the mob and I I didn’t do it I I you know that shortly after I quit that that was just wrong and and the new dancers the young girls Missouri was pretty at the time rural Missouri it was way out in rural Missouri outside of Central Missouri State University so he lured college girls into dance and and all kinds of girls thought they hit a gold mine and he wants to put that rule on him and I’m like girls I’m not doing this you pay me 50 to 100 bucks maybe you know but you’re not going under my thong and and this girl she was horrible and we got into it when I walked out that day but you know I told her straight up you know I’m I pay to work here you don’t tell guys that they can touch me you know it it’s just a weird situation yeah yeah straight up straight up like way outside of her role and this was a same Club where the owner uh had girls go back and service his friends right and that’s that’s a part that I wanted to I was ultimately uh going to loop around towards I mean I’ve alluded to it a few times that there’s just over prostitution going on um it wasn’t even prostitution we they weren’t getting paid for it good point they got to keep working there I didn’t do it I wasn’t asked to do it he didn’t like me in the beginning you know I had this I I guess because I was a season Dancer by then I had the Seattle attitude came to Missouri you know I I checked out a few clubs before went there to work and uh he didn’t like me at all I kind of stayed away from him he called me a [ __ ] snake didn’t even you know introduce himself or anything the whole staff was except for the DJ was just rude and nasty they had a mass walk out you know a lot of people walked out yeah that’s that’s insane that’s insane well so yeah you know servicing going on in the establishment and everything else um yeah and they didn’t get paid for it they were just told and it was usually like the the girls that weren’t weren’t really good at hustling or making money or maybe they couldn’t pay their house I’m not sure what but yeah it was it was apparent all over that and he had a girlfriend who was a dancer I said they all have side chicks you know and he would take his he’d have his friends come down and that’s the hard part you go down and give his friend Tony a [ __ ] you know so you can keep working there that’s your reward when there’s like 30 clubs in the city you know that you could go to yeah that’s just crazy that’s just crazy and you know these girls a lot of girls that come in are are divorced they’re desolate you know and on their last leg Yeah now but there were there were some you know it sounds like you did see some overt examples of prostitution going going on um and and and let me just be clear on what I mean by that what I mean by that is like somebody actually like facilitating you know uh sex like with with money you also saw it sound like like literal just sexual activities going on like people getting hand jobs and stuff which I always figured was happening yes I saw that a few times and you know there was nothing we could do about it because apparently they tipped the staff enough that they could get away with it and nobody bothered to you know investigate if you didn’t tip them I mean if you even looked at a customer wrong they’d be all over you like you or something dirty and threaten your job and everything and find you like 20 bucks here and 50 bucks there for stupid stuff yeah that’s crazy that’s crazy it you know on one hand just I want to address this while it’s on the top of my mind on one hand like the the findes sound pretty [ __ ] up like I was talking to somebody about the fact that you know as you write in your book it’s $40 a day and like if you don’t come in that day you still owe $40 a day right and they were like wow that’s pretty messed up because when I Le when I miss work I don’t still owe money and I’m like yeah I mean it’s a really good point but also to the same to the same notion like I’m not trying to give them any excuses at all but I know some people like cut hair for example and they have to rent a space and if they don’t cut hair I mean they still have to pay for the space you know yeah exactly so well yeah that is a motivator and when I say $40 I mean that from the early to mid90s no telling what the house is now it’s got to be a hundred or so I don’t know I haven’t been in one in a while so it it can it can add up and you know it was even if you called in in some Club said you were sick or whatever they’d still charge you yeah that’s crazy it depended on these owners you know I always thought that after a while that maybe this was the stripping business was just covering something else they were laundering money because the way it was ran and these owner they they they could be creepy yeah yeah I could only imagine like you say like like we to start off with it’s like the lines are already blurred I mean you’re having these women work for you scantily clothed and you know it’s a weird power Dynamic yeah um they owe you money off the right off the bat I mean yeah I know like everything’s stacked up against you you know yeah you had to you know when like when my daughter started I told her I said I didn’t want you to do it I don’t want I did it so you didn’t have to I did it to support you I was going to college at the time and uh there was a lot of hardships you know and she wanted to try it so she did and I told her if you’re going to do it and I’ll tell this to any other woman that goes into the industry if you’re going to do it be the best don’t waste your time you know it’s like I you have to deal with all this and I I schooled her on everything she was amazing though you know yeah I’m sorry trailed off no it’s okay it’s okay uh I mean if I could just say again like what I was saying earlier like the St the odds are stacked up against you and on top of all that you know on top of the the like unfair power Dynamic and everything else outside of those walls you’re just a stripper that’s what they say exactly so like even if you do need help or there you go yeah or you’re a [ __ ] yeah I still get called [ __ ] for doing it years ago yeah so I guess I say that to say that like not only are the odds stacked you stacked against you in those walls but because you chose to be in that profession the the odds are stacked against you outside of those walls too yes they are I had I even had stigma from my own family my siblings especially when after I left uh Seattle you know after my divorce you know I moved home and I wanted to get out of it but there was nothing and when I when I saw clubs I said well I’m going to go work at clubs my family supported me they I was like I got to get back in shape you know I got to get this and that and they were like okay we’ll do this and when I started doing it they just started dogging me you know like you don’t have to do that blah blah blah and they they didn’t include me in stuff and my my own sister had a fiance who was from a rich family and one day I walked down to her room to tell her something and he was like sh sh like they were talking about me you know and and don’t get me started with dating or do get me started with dating because it didn’t H it didn’t work yeah I can only imagine that somebody was like uh I mean the the topic comes up what do you do for work and I mean how how could you give me could you give me any examples how did that go down usually well you know I was always straight up I’m a single mom and I’m a dancer when I meet someone and and the same response oh I have no problem with that I respect you you put food on the table and I would either be get get used for sex like a booty call which didn’t work because you show up at my door at two in the morning you know I’m going to call the cops and I know it’s you I’m just going to do it to be an [ __ ] you and you know and then they’d want to and then the wrong ones would want my daughter at the time was uh when I started she was two years old to later and they’d want to meet my daughter and I’m like why are you interested in my daughter for and like I put in the book you know I had a guy invited me to Canada for his Christmas party and when and let me make this clear uh when I was out of work I did not dress or look like a stripper okay I had I had Grandma panties on sweats whatever no makeup and so when I went out with guys I was dressed you know regular but they would tell other friends that I was a dancer and blah blah blah and I in my book there’s a a trip to Canada that’s interesting to read about I was lucky to leave with my life but I’ll save that for the readers you know and and guys just couldn’t separate it after a while I had a there’s a guy who’s a millionaire in Seattle right now and I dated him briefly and he he wanted to me to quit so he could pay my bills for me but he wasn’t into kids and I’m like I’m not going to quit and go under you and and do all this I’m not ready you started dating me when I was dancing I leave the club I come to you I’m not leaving with guys you know how’s that different from your profession you know you screw people too you’re a realtor yeah it it just ended you know that’s fun you know and that’s just how it was I couldn’t date after a while or and there was a thing with me about me it got to the point and one of the reasons I left is I drank too much while I was dancing after a while I have post most traumatic stress disorder from years before that so to add to the stripping yeah we would drink and he would throw that in my face but I’m like I was doing this when we got together I don’t do it with you why are you worried you know it’s just all kinds of excuses they got what they wanted basically they got their little piece of ass and they wanted to move on and make it look like it was my fault yeah yeah um so like I’ve got a few different ways I want to go with this I was taking notes I didn’t want to cut you off um I mean let me just start here I guess so we talk about the odds being stacked against them and against you and other sex workers or dancers I’m calling them sex workers just collectively because I do view this as a form of sex work um and I and I mean that like endearingly in a positive manner it is a form of sexual expression I feel you know you’re it’s an intimate setting you’re showing parts of your body that you don’t normally show you know and so for all those reasons I feel it you know goes into that category and I guess because of that again I want to acknowledge the many ways that you list that the the odds are stacked against the dancers um but like let’s just say in a perfect world that the odds weren’t stacked against them like do you really think there’s any way that you can take the sex out of the club do you think there’s always going to be a little bit of like back door and I’m not saying that’s wrong either I’m just saying like no it is a it’s it’s adult industry it’s a seduction you seduce men and I I’ll be honest some of these regular customers can grow on you and you I’ve met girls that got married to their customers but the reason I separated it is because I had a daughter at the time and when my ex-husband was alive he wanted to take her from me and he knew what I was doing and then after he died I’m all she had so I couldn’t risk it you know I just had to do my job and separate that I wanted to separate that life and be the real me at home you know I wanted it to just be a job yeah you know where I go there I do this and I couldn’t date guys in the club because that’s not who I was they would expect that you know I don’t walk around in my underwear at home and and diddly around drink cocktails and do dances right but I guess for other the reason I’m asking that is because it was kind of eye opening for me because I know of one strip club near me never been to it uh there’s I’m sure there are many more throughout the state of Illinois I’m sure listeners right now no matter where they are as you pointed out in your book there are strip clubs all over gentleman’s clubs whatever you want to call them all over the United States and I mean I always assumed people were like you know not just dancing but I guess like I never realized that yeah that I mean clearly there’s like people will have sex there or like some sort of sexual acts will occur in there like no question I’m saying even if the even if the scenarios were ideal as we’ve talked about you’re you feel forc some people feel forced to do it because they were trying to make ends meet right right but that’s true but but I feel like even if even if the situation was ideal now that I think about it and I really looked at like what it would be like in there I feel like it’s silly for me to pretend that the future wouldn’t include still some of that going on you know yeah oh I’m sure it does yeah um the last Club I worked at it was a little more open and it was to answer your question I’m trying to build up to it um like for instance we didn’t have VIP PE rooms like little rooms I’m sure the girls met customers out of there and did their little thing and made money but we didn’t have to compete with that you know I didn’t see girls take all the guys in the back room and screw them and pay them and then I’m not making money because I just want to dance for them you understand it it was just the leverage the last Club I worked at which was perfect except for the building was there was a long stage down the center there was no DJ there was a jukebox and we put our names on a list and when the person in front of you on on top of the of you on the list was on stage you went plugged your music in and just jumped on stage and dance and then the bouncers were on both sides and they would watch all the dances and if anything was out of line they they had enough little space that they could control it nobody could get away with anything it was just dancing it was a members only Club so it was always the same customers and it worked guys and you made money because the drinks were cheap after they paid their membership they could get in for free so all the money was for us and then you got these high clubs that you call high class clubs like I didn’t put in my book but I danced in a couple clubs in Topeka Kansas where the cap you know the Capital One was so huge and it was also a restaurant you know and it had stages all over they couldn’t keep track of the girls and when you tried to do a dance you get your hair stuck in someone’s steak dinner you know and they were there to eat and and bring business partners you know and the owners didn’t think about the girls making money they just made us pay all this house and you know it wasn’t about the dancers they just threw the dancers in to bring the guys in they weren’t a serious dance club and then I left that club after a few days went to another club in TOA that was smaller I spent an hour talking to this big old fat manager about um how he doesn’t [ __ ] the girls and I’m thinking I don’t know what kind of drama you had here before me I’m just coming to dance and I have no intention on screwing you you know and it’s just silly stuff like that and the girls just want to dance I’m sure I’m going off on a tangent here um the smaller the club you just have the girls dancing the guys are there know the dancers they’ll buy you a drink and you keep them company you know it’s all about company you go out of town you you’re lonely you go into a strip bar you watch some pretty girl on stage you have a girl sit with you you buy her a drink talk to her get a dance and that’s it and that’s that apparently that’s boring to some people but you know it’s it’s called entertainment yeah yeah um well I was just looking up I don’t know that I’m going to be able to play the whole clip somehow these are on YouTube so maybe this is allow like I’m I’m oh okay I’m well I’m so I was just going to show you this just because I thought you might find it interesting and funny again I don’t know that I’m going to play this whole thing because I mean it’s seems like it’s openly allowed on YouTube but um I don’t know I don’t want to get my show taken down but this is the video game I was talking about earlier like they literally have you know you go you’re in a strip club you can throw money so you see him throwing money yeah and I’m not gonna the the scene that I’m not going to show is when they get a private dance because literally part of the video game is uh when you’re getting a private dance you can see she obviously likes it he’s coming over because or she’s coming over because he’s throwing a bunch of money and stuff well I would too if he was throwing that kind of money yeah yeah um when uh you get a private dance part of the goal is you like touch the dancer but you try to make it so that the bouncer doesn’t see it which yeah is kind of interesting like that’s in a video game yeah I know fun right I’ve watched movies I’ve watched movies where they about strip clubs I don’t know I don’t remember the names where girls were in the this private room with this guy guy and the guy’s like what can I do to get a [ __ ] and the girl’s like $100 and so he gets blown in there and I’m like no some girls go for that a lot of girls at the you know we did a podcast about the brothel and a lot of girls at the brothel did prostitute at strip bar especially in California before they went there they got arrested and Florida and they got arrested and they wanted to do it legal right I I guess that’s just not my thing you know I I think it’s for girls that want to dance and entertain and they threaten to close the clubs and have they say you’re GNA close this club but yes they still you know promote this crap in an indirect reason here here’s a little part that I will show of it just because it doesn’t show like tits that’s what I’m concerned about because it shows video game video game tits and I don’t know that that’s allowed on YouTube even though it’s it’s on YouTube uh on several videos I just don’t want to push it but you can see he’s like touching the dancer and I’m just going to play a little bit of it just touching the dancer and yeah the idea is you can kind of uh I guess you can see yeah there’s like the door here and if the bouncer comes then you like stop touching him stop touching her because you don’t want to get thrown out well that in most clubes what I saw is not illegal they can touch your hips and stuff it’s when they start trying to feel up your butt your boot when the bouncers get up they say you can touch their sides you know it’s all these stupid little rules um but it’s not all that’s not all illegal it it’s when they start negotiating sex in the VIP room and what got me was the club in Reno the cameras the entire time my daughter worked at this club which for a little while the cameras were never working you know and I’m like just take them out and then the DJ exposing his penis to her when she go up and try to pick picker music you know the treatment yeah yeah that’s a whole other Dynamic that I didn’t even think of uh the fact that there is a DJ and you have to like work with them to like they could like either make or break your show you know and like you know um yeah first of all you have to approach them and get the music second of all apparently you have to be like aware of what other people’s taste in music is so that you don’t like steal their music oh I know and then and then like uh what was the other thing you described oh yeah they like I’m not gonna spoil exactly but they they could like you know botch your announcement for example hypthetically they’ll screw up your light show yeah you don’t it’s just you keep it dark in there it’s always dark so but then they’ll turn the light [Music] walk home for four hours huh damn [ __ ] that that’s a that’s a long walk especially after doing all that physical work um oh yeah Pacific Highway in Seattle wasn’t the safest place either I must have had God watching me or something yeah damn damn well um you know one of the other questions that I had was how would you get out of the industry how does one get out of the industry because you know a lot of times you apply somewhere and they ask to see your resume and if they see you graduated from high school like let’s just say you got it you know you got into dancing right out of high school they might see you graduated from high school hopefully they see that you know and then nothing for a span of time and like I feel like that’s the probably the tough part like how do you get out well I um for a while I had gaps in my resume I couldn’t get a job but they weren’t even great paying jobs I was taking college courses in the morning I did live by a junior college and started taking classes and what I did I took a break from it there was just too much meth rolling around I couldn’t do the meth because it makes me throw up I guess God gave me the gift of not being able to do it um I went to a tempor I went to temporary agencies you know where they find you it was a big in Kansas City and there was a lot of temp jobs so I started doing temps and I got hired nice and I worked there for a couple years but I kind of hit a glass ceiling and uh went back to dancing for a while and tried to go to nursing school on the side because I you know I’m a veteran and the military paid for it so that’s how I did it and then while I was waiting for nursing school I started a cleaning business it it’s it’s ironic I had some customers like an older guy that would come in he had a farm past the club I worked at in Kansas and he he had extra vegetables so he’d go in the club dropping off all these vegetables you know and we started talking and go talked about cleaning and stuff so I started a cleaning business when I was tired of dancing and it it seemed a you know I ad I knew how to advertise I Market it and I did really well I made about the same or more that’s how I got out of it until I moved to Nevada you know but most girls that leave the industry I I I noticed they’re like bartenders they’re really good in the tip industry because they’re used to tips I worked a regular straight job and I couldn’t stand the salary or the arly pay it just wasn’t enough you know I just stayed there long enough to get my paycheck yeah I just want to say again for people that are listening it’s behind the poll we’re joined by Toren relle um once again uh we’ll have a link in the podcast description so that you can purchase this book um I’m displaying it on my screen now uh it was a great read I read it two times in both in one sitting I must just say so it is as Toren mentioned earlier it’s not like it’s a you have to devote a lot of time to the read it’s a it’s a pretty quick read and it’s an entertaining read especially if you find the subject interesting you can see I’m holding the book right now um you know it’s a it’s a great uh there you go yeah um and I’m displaying right now you can see it’s available on multiple uh platforms reader housee Amazon Barnes & Noble iTunes Google Play and more um so pick up your copies and I wanted to give you some space was there anything that like uh I didn’t cover today that that you wanted to talk about or anything else just specifically um you wanted to discuss on air for for our listeners well being that we did a a interview a year or so ago about the brothel when I went to work in the brothel as a shift manager um I went through job connect I had no idea I was going there but I thought since I was a dancer I could use some of that Insight on helping the girls you know help them negotiate how to talk to customers I wanted to help them write their bios to help them make money I thought I could at least be useful there um I don’t think it worked out that way most of them came in because I was older you know and heavier that I didn’t look like a dancer anymore that I didn’t know what I was talking about so it didn’t really work the way I thought it would you know but I I did help bring some parties from a regular party up to a VIP party you know I did help with that with a couple girls and you know negotiate but I I was trying to use uh what I knew in the dancing industry from dealing with customers and you know how to maneuver it even though I didn’t have sex because it wasn’t the sex industry I thought I could help them yeah and that was my four years there but there was like there were so many rules and upper management and and girls that just didn’t want to hear it from anyone yeah and I noticed you didn’t mention that in your book until basically the very end um is there a chance we might get a a book on your time in the brel industry not anytime soon there’s been books done on that I’m going to do a couple more if this one is successful but I’m I’m gonna Venture off out of the sex industry I’m going to talk about uh working in a government office talk about all the office archetypes like the gossip the office Affair the office drunk you know and the policies and you know it’s G to have a picture like like this book where it has a picture with me there it’s gonna I’m hoping it has the same cover but I’m going to be sitting sideways at a desk bent over with a knife sticking out of my back it’s going to be like that it’s been yeah I thought I would write about the casino industry too because I’ve been there for a while and then I was going to do a spiritual book because I also do tarot readings and and spirit work like that but if I do do a brothel book I did try a Blog on it one day before and I still have it but it didn’t get a lot of readers um I might have a co-writer I’d like to find a working girl who retired from the industry and do a two-part for both sides that’d be cool but that’s down the road yeah that’d be cool you know I’d read it you know I’d read it um I want to thank you again for the kind message you left me in the book that that you got me um it just really meant a lot to me and oh um I read I read it again like not only literally the book but I read that message again the other day and it just yeah it means a lot so thank you for um well read it yeah oh for sure yeah so uh folks she wrote Cole you gave us a voice when nobody else would and for that I am grateful thankful uh uh thank you and I know you will go far love torrent I meant it I mean you you you have you’re a journalist you have to explore both sides of the story and all sides and and listen to all people and you know the fact that you weren’t rude and condescending you know during interviews which we were used to in the past you know talking to people and stuff and you know it’s appreciative thank you you know we all appreciate it from every side thank you yeah um yeah that that means a lot and I’m curious um did you notice any impact of the series um like just in your personal life I mean I don’t know I think I messaged you when I uh when I dropped it you know well I don’t know if it had anything to do with the series once in a while I’ll run into a working girl because I live close and one of them gives me bad dirty looks and there’s another one that’s well known she’s not there anymore that gave me a dirty look because we almost bumped carts in the grocery store and I just said excuse me and she just rolled her eyes and kept going going I don’t know if it’s because of the interview or they didn’t like me when I was working there well one was well known at the bunny I never worked with her but she was always pretty stuck up is that the one that allegedly shot a firearm no no I never met her no it’s it was the the older one that was on the cat house series oh oh like um Madam susette no working girl she she has military in her oh gotcha gotcha I understand I understand yeah but I’m sure you I I actually met her once did you know that you did yeah yeah actually give me just one second let me grab something really quick so if people are listening this far they will uh they deserve a teaser one of the people that kind of sent me like seemingly a threat was Madame Suzette I I told her I had gone out to the Bunny Ranch and I had spoken to some of the employees and she said after I told you that you I didn’t give you permission and I was like you gave me permission not to record on site which I didn’t yeah you know I and I didn’t you I didn’t get the impression that I wasn’t allowed at the Bunny Ranch but um I’m going off the top of my head right now again I’ll release the finer details the full email in the future but she was like you did not go to the Bunny Ranch um because I’ve been here all summer and to that I say I did go to the Bunny Ranch because this is all I wanted from the Bunny Ranch was this coffee cup um so I I have been to the Bunny Ranch and I’ve actually even if you check out on YouTube folks episode 14 in our series I believe let me just double check that really quick yeah episode 14 which is my tour of Bella’s AI Ander Ranch which is this little match box um there is a point in the tour where I show I did take footage in the brothel and I was given permission um while I was there now I know that Suzette already told me no but I visited the Bunny Ranch godamn it and I’ve heard everybody else is allowed to take like pictures and stuff on the inside so I just asked may I take a small video of the inside of here and they said yes so I do have video of myself inside the bunny r because I did go um well you’re a customer you should have been in there you asked for permission as a journalist but you went in as a customer yeah and I saw what what they said and I’m going to tell you that’s typical of the way you were treated I used to fill in there and if a guy didn’t look like he had money or something they they were you know pretty much shunned but that’s all I want to say I do have some girls that I used to work with that come into my work because I work work at a casino they come in and buy cigarettes and booze and they hug me you know they don’t all hate me good you know they’re all they’re all civil I didn’t mention names in my interview I didn’t throw anyone under the bus I told what it was like and how my experience was and the thing is when you do something and you go to work somewhere and you’re treated badly somebody’s going to give you a platform sooner or later and we live in an age where things are getting exposed yeah you know things are coming out in the light you look all over on the news and this this is our platform you know we got treated badly this is my platform my book you know I want strip bars to be better and more classy pardon me you know for not wanting to sit on a used condom when I’m trying to work you know and do the right thing yeah that’s just life and frankly that was the point of this series uh was not to end the the brothel or anything else even though I think I did have some people on that may have had that like opinion um that’s okay and I welcome you know I have PE my show is mainly about uh oftentimes I would say we discuss cannabis but one of my most recent episodes and I’ve had this person on several times they do not believe cannabis should be legal at all I welcome I don’t want it to be an echo chamber um you know what I mean I think it’s fair to have and in fact I I’ve invited Jason guaso who is trying to shut down the brothel once again in Nevada I would like him to come on my show I he’s not he just doesn’t return my he won’t even like deny he won’t even send me like a formal denial he just doesn’t return my um requests for uh well me go me going on as close as I lived to it I really took a risk but I don’t care anymore you know I there’s more people that have I talked to a woman at work today who worked as a manager like I did after I left they all have the same experience you know it’s the same people there the same experience if you don’t want it to be out in the open then you don’t do it you know you do it right right and and that thank you you kind of wrap back around to the point that I was uh trying to make with the series like that that was not the point to shut down to the brothel it was to give air time to I thought some like I I don’t know I just personally was trying to learn about it wasn’t a lot of content online and then so I was like let’s do this let’s give them the space like I’ll be fair you know and yeah it was so weird you know if I could just briefly recap like you know calling all the different locations and most of them would just hang up on me before I even finish my sentence hey would you like to come on a podcast to click um you know like it was like whoa this is seems like and I wish I would have recorded that by the way cuz it would probably been like a very dramatic beginning cuz everybody’s just like hanging up on me you know would have been a meme well I’ll tell you one thing my time working there 90% of the phone calls were prank calls so they probably didn’t take you serious we had guys calling all day long to jerk off to screw with the girls to talk to the girls to to think they were funny with stupid jokes you know that were overdone and I’ll tell you I used when I was a kid before caller ID I was the queen of prank calls you know I could do a prank call and I would entertain it for a minute you know just to make them feel stupid but that’s all they get that’s probably why you got hung up on and not taken seriously about 1% of the calls were customers scheduling appointments and 90% was prank calls and the other 9% when Dennis was alive was him calling us to scream at us for something stupid that we had no idea you know did you see that there was a documentary on Dennis no where’s it at I’ve been looking I heard about one it’s on um Vice TV it’s called Uh sex before the internet um sex before okay I can remember that sex before the internet and uh yeah if you look up bunny ranch or I think it’s prostitution um they uh yeah covered the Bunny Ranch and it was um it was good I would say it was mostly a Fluff piece and like one of the things specifically that I forgot I think I talked to Tori Lisa about this who’s another sex worker that came on to my show um one of the things they said about the Bunny Ranch was like every room has I wish I could pull it up right now but they’re like the Bunny Ranch is the the nicest brothel to work at you know which I think you would say you would agree and say that it’s the flagship quote unquote like I said it was the top house right it was the top house but they said something to the effect and I hate that I can’t find this clip up but like that every room had a jacuzzi and blah blah blah and I’m like that’s not true no like they they like gave they gave the impression that every room was like some big ass room but really it’s like all these trailers put together these rickety ass hallways they were just rooms with a bed and a shower the VIP room you know might have had like a civian you know what that is right it’s like a machine that the woman sits on like a big vibrator um and like the one that I worked at and then it had like a sex swing and a bed and that never got used and I know there are different sizes of rooms I don’t mean to like paint paint the picture the other way but they painted it as if every room was like the same luxurious room but from what I actually was told was that there’s like quote unquote shitty rooms and then there then there are actually a lot nicer rooms and like the the new people start in the shitty rooms and work work their way up well the shitty rooms at the Kit Kat where I worked at which is burnt down and I and we had talked about when I said electrician came in that day well yeah I was right um it had a little tiny shower that an obese person couldn’t use yeah and and a and a double bed with a worn out mattress you you know I mean I’ll be honest if you shut the door and farted in that room you blow the wall down and then you had the big rooms you know like the VIPs and The Bungalow and what I called the D Hall which were a little bigger rooms with a little bigger bathroom and a bathtub but I I didn’t see a whole lot of difference it was just a trailer to me he worked the girls worked their way up to what they thought was a bigger room and if they had a bad month to where they couldn’t book anything they’d have to move out of that room and go into a worse room so you were constantly moving around yeah that’s crazy you know it I I don’t know I and I talked to other people there’s more people that went through those places and work there there’s more working girls and I’m going to be doing a on going on camera with some film crew that’s doing a six-part documentary with A&E about the brothel oh finally God in a week they’re coming to my house good and yeah and I’m you know they have girls that talk about racism and it’s basic basically about debt slavery it’s completely different than your your you know what you’re doing it’s about the debt slavery how the you know and I told you the girls some girls walk in in debt with nothing and can’t get out you know no I mean but that we did definitely cover that a lot and and in fact the episodes that uh that are going to be released with deian uh she that’s one of the main things she talks about you know um is the I think she described it as the vort of debt you know you you go in um expecting to plan for the future and then you get kind of sucked into this Vortex of debt where you’re not looking to the Future anymore you’re just living in the moment trying to pay off the house fees you’re just trying to get out at this point you’re in a fishbowl yeah you know Fishbowl of drama and like I said I you saw my book I could have wrote their bios for them I could have edited their bios but they told me I didn’t know what I was what I was talking about so I just sat back in office and crocheted blankets you know because every kind of time I give an advice on how to talk to a guy or how to book I would get shut down like I was nobody because the other managers on the other side like this one lady I don’t know who used to call me bad names you know who sat there sleeping on the couch all day you know she got promoted and got bon in a house where she could bonus all the time and you know because of her friends the HR lady who’s not there anymore by the way you know it wasn’t really what you could do or what you could offer there you were just a body could you get a sheriff card okay you’re just a Fall Guy you know here’s uh I found some little promos for the the Bunny Ranch um documentary that came out of Vice TV let’s take a look at one they’re really short so see if you recognize any faces he organized it he it like a business he was going to help all these girls make all this money and get famous Dennis decided to put a spotlight on the industry and quite literally take it out of the darkness and into the light he wanted to glorify these spaces and The Women Within them he said if I could be the middleman every time anybody in America had sex my dreams would be fulfilled well like any other man yeah you know if you could own a a brothel if you were Dennis Hoff you know yeah yeah he did a lot as far as uh public relations you know getting people in there and and doing interviews with anybody and everybody even turned I don’t know if you remember when a semi Tru backed into the Bunny Ranch yep he even made that into a PR stunt you know he was good about that I just didn’t you know I wish he would just stayed on the business side and didn’t um make the girls his herum and screw them it just caused problems for everyone yeah because they would think that they were Mrs Hoff and and they would just make our lives hell right right um just so that people know what you’re reference near Carson City deputies say it was an intentional crash hold on a second share my uh the wrong screen here City deputies say it was an intentional crash and the man on your screen is facing a couple charges including assault with a deadly weapon you can see that semi just going right through the fence destroying the place owner Dennis Hoff says five employees 30 prostitutes and 10 customers were there at the time like like a bomb went off in here just like crazy like everything was all shaking well the man who was arrested was already wanted for another crime and while there is no word tonight on his motive for allegedly crashing into that brothel owner Dennis Hoff has a theory my guess is that he knew it’d be worldwide news if he ran his truck into into a brothel with 35 hot girls in it that’s world famous well damage is estimated at almost a half a million dollars well for starters I wasn’t working that night and I did not work at the bunny but I can tell you there wasn’t 35 hot girls there and I don’t think there were any customers there I’m not sure but I know there wasn’t that that many yeah you know he loved to embellish right yeah that he did that he did um also speaking of Dennis off this is another piece they did just a quick I just give you a quick Glimpse okay uh for and for our listeners it exposed the Ron Jeremy story um obviously it’s worth mentioning that Ron Jeremy uh from what I understand is the person that found uh Dennis Hoff dead I think so I think it was him it’s been a while but it’s quite a possibility yeah absolutely absolutely um let me see here one moment just outside of pump Hoff was running for State Assembly and his death came less than 24 hours hours after he held a campaign rally and tonight 13 Action News anchor lesli marine is live outside The Love Ranch and Leslie friends and family they are continuing to remember Dennis Hoff Todd Trisha friends and family have been stopping by The Love Ranch all day to pay the respects after Dennis Hoff was found popular brothal owner Dennis Hoff peacefully passing in his sleep I’m looking at this guy that had been my friend for 25 years on the bed you know stiff you know cold eyes at half Mass it’s like what the heck celebrity Ron jery found Hoff this morning but also spent Hoff’s together the two he’s the one who found him um also in that picture who I don’t think I I may have released it but just in case our listeners are are curious that is Heidi F and she actually texted me um oh yeah yeah well I texted her what so what was crazy about it was I texted her cuz I was going to be going out to Nevada and I just I had seen her documentary um with with the birds and I’ve always really loved Birds since I was a little kid and um I thought it would just be cool not only to go see Heidi fce but to also see the birds right yeah um and she didn’t message me until literally it was almost a year later and when she messaged me it was like 3:00 in the morning 3 or 2:00 in the morning her time cuz it came to me at like 5 or 6:00 a.m. my time and you know they’re that’s you guys are ahead of us in time or behind rather in time um and I was like she just sent me back a picture of a bird and I was just like so I just replied and I was like hey uh thanks for replying um you know would I be able to maybe stop by sometime and she just sent me back another picture of a bird and I was just like like I couldn’t tell if she was flipping me the bird or like what was going on and then she uh I finally just asked again like I was trying to be respectful and like not too pushy you know I asked again and she was like at this time you know I’m kind of busy and such so you know now is not the best time but maybe reach out back in the future and maybe we can line something up um so that’s all it was but it was just kind of cool to talk to F you know I never had she hung around but I never had the pleasure to meet her I was on graveyard when a lot of that happened and if they did have parties I had to stay in the office and I met there were celebrities there like um what’s his name flavor flave the guy with the clock on his chest and yeah and Ron Jeremy who would fall asleep in the Parlor all the time had some kind of narcolepsy and uh I just and Bob zuda they were around and I I just was trying to get through my work night there was enough stress dealing with the girls and stuff I didn’t have time to sit and and mul over them and I really didn’t want to get chummy with Dennis while I was working he didn’t really like the managers I’ll tell you a funny story about Dennis so you got a minute yeah absolutely I got plenty of time so when my daughter started working there H as a Hostess she was going to fill in at the strip bar the next night and we both worked a dayshift and my my husband and kid were on vacation and we got out and she says mom I got to see this strip bar I I got to work there tomorrow I’ve never been there I said ‘well let’s walk in there have one drink and then we’ll go to dinner and go home and go to bed well we go in there one drink turns into two the three because my daughter danced in Reno she ran into some dancer friends and and everyone was buying us drinks I was drinking Merlo wine trying to be classy we ended up getting drunk and it was Wednesday and Dennis came in so he was sitting in his usual spot to the to the right of us and he kept looking at us like and we’re just sitting there Whispering so we got so drunk we decided to play a game of drunken Truth or Dare and I got dared to go to a table dance for Dennis and so I was so drunk I walked up hugged him kissed him on both cheeks patted on his head and just started doing it I was in my my work clothes started doing a stupid dance I I leaned in hugged and my and I whispered so Daddy what’s it going to take to get some free drinks up in here and I just started wailing laughing walked back to my seat sat there then sea I dared Shaun e to do something and she went over whispered danced came back laughing so Dennis walks up with a smile on his face drops these drink tokens between us on the on the table and walks back and sits down and so we’re drunk off our ass they’re putting uh they couldn’t cut us off because Dennis gave us to go ahead you know it was our night off my only time in that bar and and we’re drinking I’m drinking Merlo wine they’re trying to put ice in it to slow me down so I get money out of the ATM to get a cab you know because I knew we weren’t driving but the the funny part is is we were just using Dennis as a joke just dancing for him sticking my boobs in his face and acting all silly but yeah he did have a good sense of humor then you know any other job you could have been fired right and but we I was wailing laughing SE my daughter was my voice of reason that night and she’s like Mom let’s go let’s go so we left and when I got home Dennis had like two different people call my house to see if we made it home okay but that next day to get our cars it was like the Walk of Shame and it was before he died and and the the cool thing about it because I want to say something positive about him was he never mentioned it he never fired me you know he just made sure I made it home and that was it but after talking to him on the phone was a little shaky because I didn’t want to you know do anything with him and and that was the last in count that was a few weeks before he died so he could be cool like that because he loved attention and we gave it to but it was F it was good clean fun but I know uh I’m sure I went on someone’s video camera you know cuz uh Christopher you know the little little Fly Boy was there and and the bartender and stuff and then the rumors flew around that me and my daughter do thre sums but I mean that’s that’s just a funny story towards the end you know before he passed away that is a funny story and yeah um I can’t I won’t say much more than this right now but I actually did speak to uh you know somebody who’s related to Dennis off um yeah which was just interesting you know um they didn’t know Dennis the pimp necessarily uh but they they knew Dennis Hoff and uh yeah so I’ll be able to share that in the future that’s just another little teaser for our listeners so well I mean I the way I felt about Dennis I didn’t like what he did but if any man was in his spot like if my husband owned four brothel I would be like The Madam probably you know running crazy and he’d be screwing all the girls I mean I just think it’s it’s the nature of the Beast I didn’t like it but and if you own four brothel what do you think you’d do if girls thrown themselves at you and stuff I mean yeah I’d like to think I’d be better but you’re right yeah I would like better you know that’s why I wrote my book you know strip bars you had your club Owners with their side chicks and then the side chicks thought that they owned the club and they’d become bullies you know but I I I think what I’m thinking is I think a lot of places should be ran by women like when you said when you when I saw your videos of the Henda I thought well if if what she says is true and she runs it that way that’s good you know you don’t have men trolling the girls or and she’s a woman she knows when a girls had enough you know and and what girls go through I I think it you know maybe a bouncer whatever or have a gun you know I I think it it’s a woman’s industry I really think even strip bars and stuff should be controlled by women straight women who have maybe have been in the industry and know what it’s like you know it’s like I can’t walk into a factory and bark orders at people when I’ve never done the job you know yeah it’s simple you know it’s not a pimp industry where these men uh build these clubs and buy these clubs to make lots of money and control these girls and tell us we’re a diamond dozen and that we’re nothing you know yeah what do you um have you heard like I mentioned Jason guaso earlier have you heard um like our people trying to shut down the brothel again I don’t know you know honestly I haven’t kept up with it I don’t know if they are I know when the Kit Kat burnt down that’s one less brothel I I haven’t stayed on top of that kind of media I think when Dennis died I feel like it’s dying I’m not there but I do hear bits and pieces from people that come into my work that um it’s not doing that well there’s not a lot of PR I don’t it’s not so flamboyant anymore I think the Madam is semi-retired she doesn’t live there um they had a new turnover the HR lady that complained about on my last podcast is gone I don’t I don’t know if it’s better she did raise their pay you know made it a little better and tried to do things but I I just think the industry and the D Dynamics you know aren’t easy yeah yeah and one of the things I thought about I mean I even interviewed a worker that she’s like in and out of the legal industry and because she can make just as much as just as much money out of it as she can in it and sometimes it’s easier to just like do it in it for a little bit but then do it out of it for a little bit longer you know just kind of rotate it around yeah maybe but these Brussels here they wanted you to put your all in and not do it out there I don’t think they wanted other websites they wanted you to go through their message boards right and it was tough for a lot of us because they’re independent contractors most of them got in the industry just like like I got into dancing I didn’t want to boss micromanaged me and telling me when and where and what I can do you know it’s very difficult when you try to do it legal yeah um gosh I just thought of something that um oh yeah you know um so like one of the thoughts I had I asked you about it in the past and I asked every guest in the past you know are are these bro brothel lock down brothel anymore and most people said like no you’re allowed to leave and stuff like that and I realized that was you know it’s true that they’re allowed to you know go and get groceries or whatever else and that they weren’t in the past at some places but at the same time they don’t off usually I don’t mean to paint with a broad brush but like it seems like usually most of the people that are working out there probably don’t live in Nevada so they can’t just leave I mean they you get what I’m saying sorry it’s like weird they’re just middle of the desert you know the ones I worked at were not locked down um the ones that came in on two three week tours they might go to Walmart and back I don’t think they were too interested in sightseeing unless it was an outdate but the ones that lived in the brothel who didn’t have cars and stuff and you know they’d go out once in a while now we did have some situations which I didn’t mention on the last time where girls would like we had a lady who took a couple days off wanted to stay in Reno for a couple days she got arrested for soliciting she denied it up and down she got bailed out you know tried to make because you’re not supposed to do it in Reno right we had a couple ladies I’ve had more than more than a couple ladies go out who lived who lived in the area or Liv there that would get arrested for Dei and like the brothel would bail them out because they felt responsible and there was just stuff like that um I had times where the girls would want to go let their hair down and go have drinks and they get to Drunk in places and and I Tred they the driver couldn’t even go get them because they wouldn’t get in the car they were young ladies they were running up and down the street you know and they get they just get caught in Crazy situations that might have something to do with you know wanting to be locked down I’m not sure but when I was on shift then I’d have to send a d I sent a driver to go get a girl a few times and she was so drunk she wouldn’t get in the car so I had to threaten her if you don’t get in that car and come back to the brothel I’m gonna call Madame susette and wake her up and so she came back in the car and cussed me out you know just stuff like that you know about it’s I think it’s about conducting yourself when you represent the brothel they wanted to keep it in the brothel you know you don’t you don’t go out and act all crazy and get drunk and stuff yeah real quick questions on outdates are girls allowed to have like sex yeah really so like you could like you could like bring a girl home yeah as long as you’re in the state of Nevada right um we had one that would bring them to her house which was okay he paid for it you couldn’t cross the border they could go to dinner come back and have sex there was a time limit in the outdate as long they could do whatever they wanted in that time limit and you just call what would happen if you were late do I get charged more well we call and ask for it I don’t think they get charged for it but the girl would get in trouble oh it was imposs cuz she’s supposed to know to get it back well like burning man for instance I had a girl on my shift want to book an outdate with a guy to go to Bernie man I forgot how he paid but it wasn’t enough for the whole week and she told me as she was booking well we’re going to go to burning man they rented this U-Haul to take out there and um she said we’re just going to spend the first day together then I’m going to hang out there alone for a week and I said well I can’t make that decision you got to call the lead cashier and ask her well she called and left a message and then left so she was MIA for a week and then when it was time for her to get her pay she had to go talk to the Madam and I got yelled at for it because supposedly I let it happen and I’ll be honest I was bonusing that day and I hadn’t bonused in a while I really didn’t give a damn you know that’s my God that’s the God’s truth I’m like I got a bonus today you can stay gone whatever just be safe but I didn’t say that you know I acted professional sure you know but that stuff like that happens or they don’t come back or you know we’ve had women you know leave and live with their customers their Rich customers are there um are there certain felonies that are allowed like that are you’re allowed to have in order to work in the brothel like certain felonies that you’re not well that’s a sheriff card issue I think child support in this County if you owed child support you couldn’t work um I’m not sure about that I know there were some I don’t think soliciting would would have been one solic it wasn’t about it wasn’t about us at the brothel when we work there you know the line the county had responsibility to do background checks on these girls and decide if they could you know work or not like people ask about trafficking I’ll just throw that in we didn’t traffic girls but nobody said that girls weren’t traffic through there from someone else we couldn’t know yeah you know I want to play this uh news clip and then I’ll like kind of return to my question here in Northern Nevada a woman who works at a brothel is accused of firing gunshots at her workplace and surrendering after a standoff with deputies that lasted for hours investigators say 28-year-old Savannah Henderson got into an argument with a co-worker last night at the moonlight bunny ranch and open fire Deputy say Henderson hid in a room inside the brothel while deputies evacuated the business nobody was injured Henderson did eventually surrender and was taken into custody and she’s facing counts including drug and weapons charges and resisting arrest oh well it didn’t play the part that that was making me ask my question um I believe in a report included that she was a felony and a felon and which is ADS to like she shouldn’t have had a gun you know um because she’s a felon but my question was not about the gun really it was like I thought felons weren’t allowed to work and I thought the background check kept like balance out of the yeah I’m not sure what her background was I can tell you one thing though she was hopping mad that day at the bunny buddy I bet yeah no but uh I don’t I don’t know there was certain things but I I don’t maybe she’s a felon now is what they’re saying or she couldn’t have a gun I know gun guns weren’t allowed there and then I know later on Twitter The Madam said oh well her Bungalow wasn’t part of the Bunny Ranch property which I don’t know about that um I don’t know I just know child support and I it’s too far back to remember I know you know yeah it is interesting because I remember we were watch I can’t remember what I was watching if it was like Lisa Ling or something but yeah some girl owed child support or something like that and so she like called Dennis and she was crying she was like I failed the background check and he was like oh honey you could just come up work up here uh at this brole like they don’t require that kind of background check I saw that um I I think if you did have a felon I think if you went to court and completed it I think open felons might might be a problem if you didn’t like if you skipped bail or you still had a court date or something if I remember correctly uh you couldn’t work there till it was all closed out and whatever fines or whatever sentence you served you had to serve gotcha gotcha that makes a little bit more sense well yeah um gotcha well those are those are basically the questions I had I know I bounced around a lot um but um thanks for for humoring me on some more brothel chat yeah and I app all roads led me there I guess I don’t know but you know people buy my book you know you dancing there’s so much more in there and you know I’m going to write more and that’s what it is but it led to the brothel I thought with my experience I could help I I don’t think I was allowed to help though for one thing but that’s over with it’s been over for four years yeah it stays with you for a long time though I can’t believe I still think about it right yeah it yeah it’s impacted me in ways you know um knowing you and talking to other people um it’s it’s like a weird part of my life now well I hope you don’t get lawsuits and stuff that would be stupid you know people all over are talking about it yeah know no I haven’t gotten any you know I’ve you know people have definitely threatened that um but I’m pretty confident that you’re absolutely right everybody’s allowed to talk about it that’s what the First Amendment says I’m not saying anything purposefully disparaging I’m just trying to learn and yeah so yeah it’ll all be good it’ll all be all right um but you know it’s been a little bit of a bumpy road but like some people told me they’re like Cole what else did you expect you were talking about the sex industry so yeah well my my whole time as a dancer was a big bumpy road like I put in my book you know I got um I got picked on I had people when I bought a brand new car I I when the Saturn was big I paid cash for a Saturn because no one I I forgot to mention as a as an adult Entertainer we couldn’t get credit no matter how much money I show my bank account so I paid 17 grand up front for a new Saturn it was a 95 back in the day okay fully loaded I was proud of it no payments and jealous neighbors put like toothpaste on my bumper bad notes on it triy to open my gas cap I mean any way to bring you my job huh yeah any way to bring you down yeah and it was like stupid and you know I was proud of my little world you know with my daughter I I had her in so many classes I could afford swimming lessons karate basketball we were always busy as a mom in my book uh I won’t elaborate on it too much about asking to be a brownie co-leader you know and yeah you know just trying to degrade me in front of my child yeah you know because I wasn’t good enough or I was a conflict of interest well that’s one thing I actually wanted to say before I plugged your book when we close uh I just wanted to say that like I don’t want to be too cheesy here but like that one thing that I noticed about your story and and I hope that people do take it to the time to read it because it’s easy to look at the book especially if you’re not at all interested in exotic dancing it’s it’s way too easy to just be like I don’t want to hear about that you know like I think it’s too easy to do that and I think what people should instead do is like take the time get the book it doesn’t take much time to get through the book and you really Will Come Away with understanding something and one of the things I came away with understanding and I already really knew about you but it just added this layer Torin was that you are just trying just like everybody else we’re all just trying to get through this life you’re trying to provide for your daughter you’re trying to just make it and give her the best life that you could give her and and you know of course provide for yourself and I don’t know sometimes people forget that about people forget that about people I think and I don’t know I just want us to remember that that there is a layer of humanity and you showed that in your book and uh thank you I didn’t ask for anything I didn’t go on welfare nobody paid my bills and still you know I got crucified from welfare moms too I lived in a neighborhood with welfare moms because I didn’t sit there on welfare all day eat drinking Kool-Aid and having toys all in my front yard you know I was a bad person and for a while I believed it but now that I think about it I’m like nah I didn’t do anything to anybody I was just doing my job and living my life like everyone else and I hope my book you know it’s also a good book for if your daughter wanted to dance or someone you want you knew wanted to dance read this book this is what you’re getting into you know and it makes the girls human again you know we’re people yeah you know we we don’t deserve that I think that is a great point it would be you know it does give the full scope like you say it goes well into the negative which I think is it is very important for you to know the negatives and it also covers the positives so I think if you’re thinking about getting in this line of work this is the book for you you know it is so well folks one more time uh it’s in the podcast description behind the poll by Tor and Michelle um you can get it basically wherever books are sold um so check out the link in the podcast description and Tor and I just want to thank you again for your time and uh not only tonight but for putting the time in to write this book um and uh I just appreciate you um so thank you well I look forward to more podcasts from you and I thank you for indulging yeah absolutely well folks um I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did get the book behind the pole the link will be in the podcast description and uh definitely check out if you haven’t already the conversation that I already had with uh Torin and and all the others in our series on the sex industry in America that’s the memo.com seex we’ll see you in the next episode everybody take care all right thank you

The Cole Memo