The Cole Memo

In this episode, I sit down with Chris Berry and my friend Phil. Chris Berry is the COO at Illinois Hemp Growers Association.

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Links mentioned during show

• IllinoisHGA.com 
• Hemp Summit and After Party – Post by IllinoisHGA
• Illinois Register New Hemp Rules
• Illinois News Joint article
• We listened to a snippet from another episode that referenced possible “surveillance” by the state on Illinois hemp operators. You can listen to that full episode here. Governor Pritzker X Post
• Post by CROO
• I mentioned that medical patients can still be arrested for medical patients. This is the story that I was referencing.

The auto-generated transcript is available below.

hello and welcome this is the Cole memo I am your host Cole Preston every episode is released an audio video and transcript format to find the transcript audio or video version of any episode please refer to the description of the episode that you’re listening to now within that description you can find a link that will take you to our website which will display the transcript for this episode and the platforms where you can find this episode in audio or video formats if you’re unable to locate the episode description on whichever platform you’re listening from Simply note the episode number and visit the memo.com from there you can find the corresponding episode and then you’ll be able to access the audio video and transcript version you might also find any links that we reference during the episode so that you might be able to do your own research folks if you go to the co memo.com and use the search functionality in the top right hand corner that’s a super easy way to find an 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episode give it a thumbs up leave a comment or post a review your engagement and support is appreciated enjoy this episode of the coal memo it’s February 21st 2024 and today I’ll be joined by my friend philli and the Illinois hemp growers association hey Phil thanks for sitting back down how’s it going dude great how are you pretty good thanks for uh joining us and and joining us once again is Chris Barry from the Illinois hemp growers association Chris go ahead and reintroduce yourself to our audience hey Cole he Phil yeah great to be back with you guys um my name is Chris Barry I’m the vice president and Chief Operating Officer of the Illinois hemp growers association um we we’re an agricultural organization in Illinois and we’ve been uh working in the hemp space for over five years now and um we’re super excited to be here and talk about the new rules um that are coming down the the pipe from uh idoa and and plenty of other stuff too yeah and I’ll give you the space uh on the other things before we get into everything we want to talk about I’m displaying for our listener or for the people that are watching the podcast right now if you’d like to watch the podcast go to co memo.com youube um I’m displaying a graphic right now for an upcoming event that you have tell us about it all right so this is um this is the second year that we’re doing sort of it’s like an Afterparty um it the Illinois Department of a has their own annual hemp Summit where they present they have a variety of presenters this year it’s more uh academic and research focused from what we’ve seen um but it’s it’s usually like um an early event during the day and it wraps up in the early afternoon so after it’s over we have our um Afterparty and it’s going to be at a place called Anvil and Forge which is a a great Great Wide Open Space with Woodfired Pizza and and beer and all uh it’s just a a great place to just hang out and and sort of discuss uh all the events of the day and sort of unwind and have our happy hour out there um this is the second year in a row that we’re doing a an Afterparty after the event um and yeah it would be great if uh anyone who’s interested in hemp they and you can make it down to Springfield please come to the idoa event and then please um join us for Afterparty at Anvil and Forge if if you can absolutely absolutely and you uh said you had maybe uh something else to mention before we talk rules um yeah so we will be planning um uh we’ll be providing more details for an event in May um which is going to be a hemp Lobby day so if you’re interested in getting down into Springfield and making your voice heard and just supporting the hemp industry and supporting Farmers um this is this is the opportunity to get in front of some legislators um get into their offices get into their um you know speak to them speak to their assistants give them handouts um do uh just communicate the message that uh you’re interested in hemp and that um you you know you want to be a participant and um right now I think that that’s it’s really important to do that and and that’s why um the illino hemp growers association we’re we’re pushing for um a little bit more I I guess you would say recognition um from our legislators because right now there’s there’s not a whole lot of interest um from legislators and hemp and it’s not just on the state level it’s the federal level um but that that’s that’s one of our initiatives is just may is a great time to do it April and May are like the best two months to Lobby in Springfield so um we we imagine that uh it will probably be in a on a Wednesday in May which is I know is difficult for a lot of people to get away in the middle of the week but that is actually the perfect day to get in front of legislators faces so if if you’re interested in doing that please reach out to us and and let us know that that you’re interested in that and um we will organize a group outing uh to to go do this thing because that’s that’s how we got started was lobbying in Springfield over five years ago uh and it’s it’s just an incredible experience and it’s an incredible springboard for you to be more aware of how you can affect public policy and how your story actually really does affect um uh the way politicians conduct themselves on the on the floor in in Congress yes yes uh join the movement folks and uh if you want to make sure that you’re in the loop on what they’re doing it’s uh illino hg. comom is that right that’s right bam got it and that’ll be in the podcast description folks um you can sign up for their email newsletter um if you saw the last one you may have seen a familiar face Grace the um newsletter at the very bottom and uh so much more helpful information and some of the information that we’ll be discussing today I think that’s a perfect transition look at that look at that the latest hemp program rules were published in the Illinois register the day after Christmas hey Christmas came late this year um tell us about this what what’s uh what’s what’s the word on the street break it down all right so it’s it’s been it’s not been a surprise um it’s it’s been more of a I guess uh well it’s about time you know uh it it’s it it was almost a year um well nine months since the public comments were um submitted and I know we’ve talked about this prior on on other episodes um and so it’s been a long time since they proposed a rule change and now finally in December they they finally got their whole act together and they put out a a final version to be submitted to the USDA of the hemp program rules for Illinois that being said after nine months what was published in the Illinois register and this is just to give everyone some context that before we start talking about the details what was published in the Illinois register and this is I don’t if if you have any experience looking at the Illinois register they they will show the previous version of of what was said and then they’ll also show the new version and then they’ll have stuff crossed out and they’ll have like the new version will be in a different color and so you can see what changes have been made um I don’t know where or how this mistake was made but what’s published and this is officially published in the Illinois register like there’s no taking it back um they compared the new rules that they’ve released to an old version of the rules that was probably from like 2020 and they had since updated the rules and post that time so when you read the changes in the in the Illinois register it actually looks like they’re overhauling the entire Industrial Hemp rules and there’s so many changes but it’s not that’s not really the case um and so yeah just to give you that context if you do go and investigate this for yourself you’re going to see that there’s a ton of changes what looks like a ton of changes in the register but there’s really not that many changes and and most of the the critical sticking points as far as you know what is your what is the definition of hemp what is your requirement for testing your hemp um you know what are the timelines what are your responsibilities as a cultivator all of those things are essentially going to remain the same the the the biggest change with the rules um is they’re officially putting it out there that uh you have to have the FSA or the Farm Service Agency involved in your hemp cultivation so previously it was just the department of a that was handling everything from giving you the license to making sure that you have a compliant test and and also handling all of the reporting that’s your responsibility and all of those things now what they’re saying is we need to have the FSA involved in that so yeah with the PDF that you have right now Cole if you would uh control F and just type Farm Service that that would probably be the the biggest change they they have made some changes yeah so see in the definitions there they’ve added Farm Service Agency FSA um that that is the biggest part of this is if you don’t already have a relationship with the FSA um if and you plan to be a cultivator now is the time to reach out to the FSA and say because at this time of year it’s it’s perfect you know it’s late February um and the growing season’s coming up reach out to your FSA and say that you know I’m I want to be a hemp grower um this is my plan what can you do for me uh and you know let let’s get it on the books because I’m going to get a hemp license etc etc so that that’s the that’s the biggest as from the cultivator perspective that’s the biggest change is this is a whole new thing uh last year it was like we should everyone should have done this but if you didn’t do it it’s okay probably but this year it’s like it’s official it’s on the books you got to have FSA take care of uh your Harvest and Reporting numbers so you’re you will be filing reports to the FSA you will not be filing Harvest reports to the idoa so and there like I said there looks like there’s a lot more changes so what you’re seeing on the screen right now with all of the blue underline text it’s showing you know like dry weight basis uh decarbox like all of these new definitions some of them are new some of them are not new some of them were in the there’s an approved hemp plan on the Illinois Department of a website um which contains some of these definitions already that’s definitely new though right this decar oxalate thing uh potentially uh I think it regardless of whether or not that particular definition is new um the the underlying concept there of the total THC which like accounts for the um conversion of thca to th Delta 9 THC that has been on the books for much longer than prior to what this um okay new proposal shows so they may be adding the definition of decarbox here um but it’s not necessarily going to change anything for producers uh and another another good thing to think uh another good like key piece of information to think about when you’re thinking about these rules here is these rules are very much geared towards cultivators they’re not necessarily geared towards processors or there there is some language in there you know uh explaining what you need to do as a processor but then going even further than that as a retailer or anyone else who uh um deals with hemp in their line of business um if you’re on the enduser side if you’re on the retailer side not a whole lot of information and rules apply to you from this this new rule essentially every everything that you’ve been doing for the last five years um is still going to be the status quo so like if you you know if you’re someone who um primarily you know 90% of your business is Delta a products um there’s nothing in these rules that is going to keep you this year from from participating and and continuing to um generate Revenue that way and same thing with the hemp Drive Delta 9 UM or any of the other um hemp cannaboid products that that some people might consider you know intoxicating or whatever else you might want to describe them as um nothing in in this rule change is going to shut you down and I think that’s that’s the key that’s the key takeaway from from this like as just a an overall summary because this is what we’ve seen as as the Iha is we have people reaching out to us saying they’re gonna shut us down uh and uh time and time again I’d say at least half a dozen times now we’ve we’ve put in the work to one-on-one communicate with these businesses to address their concerns and to say this is not what’s actually happening there there’s a little bit of alarmism a little bit of you know government’s out to get me mentality which is totally understandable but uh with with this specific rule change you you don’t have a whole lot to worry about if you’re on the the nuser retailer side of him just just the same as you have been for the past five years so what were you gon to say what about uh people kind of exploiting this like loophole of this like thca flower that’s been around because I feel like that could seemingly be something if you’re saying that like that total cannaboid definition has already been on the books you know like I know Cole has refer and like we’ve heard people talk about how they’re looking to do some kind of enforcement around this stuff is is that something that the state might be cracking down [Music] on so uh um yeah so like the THC flower um if it come like the only requirement if you dig into these rules and you dig into the USDA rules the only requirement is a compliant pre Harvest test after the after the hemp material passes a compliant pre- Harvest test it can go to retail and if you don’t ever do do another pre Harvest test uh or official pre Harvest test because you can still you can like and you can still find this too you can go online or go to a retailer and and scan a product you know most of the time there’s a QR code if not you can ask them for the COA and uh the certificate analysis and they will provide you one and it’ll say this product is 17 or 20% thca uh and and as a as a preh harvest compliance test that’s that’s not compliant but if your the the rules for the pre- Harvest compliance test happen 30 days plus or minus five days um before Harvest so if you plan it out right you get to flower for um what is it seven weeks or no it’s 35 days you get to you get you know um you get you get to uh continue to flower for 35 days after you potentially like at the maximum have a compliant test so that those are the products that are going into uh retail with a compliant Harvest test but then also are showing you know super spiked levels of thca well but plausibly though like if the state really wanted to they could like you know cuz I I I don’t know if these are like rumors you were hearing Cole about the state wanting to do some kind of stings or something yeah you know you could imagine them like going and buying stuff like a retailer could plausibly still get in trouble selling that stuff right state where to then go test it and then be like no this is actually like is the testing thing that they got done pre Harvest goingon to like save their ass yes yes I okay yeah technically I think yes um it it with with like this this type of enforcement doesn’t really exist and when like if we do see something like this happening then it you know it should be well known that this is happening so that’s I just to talked to somebody this morning and what Phil’s referencing this is a old report that I did there’s just a a little part in this I went to a uh fireside chat it was called with cbai and I actually went with Phil you can see Phil and I right here Tiffany uh Chapel Ingram who approached us uh she’s the executive director of CBI you might also recognize her as a former deputy of the canabas regulation oversight office um so uh sorry there was a part in here where they yeah do something whoops do something imp sorry um I had to find the part uh she mentioned so she was talking about hemp and she said it canra which you’ve told us about in the past uh Chris I actually learned about canra from you I believe um Aaron responded that everybody at canra was saying that you know something to the effect of hemp is the devil and everybody wants to ban it or rather Delta 8 that was the context in which she was talking about that um sure she mentioned that if the federal government closes the loophole that quote 95% of our problems go away end quote she mentioned that right now local law enforcement is reluctant to do anything due to hemp’s Federal legality and Aaron mentioned that they would be reaching out to the Attorney General’s office to quote see if there is anything they can do and just this morning I spoke to act Laboratories uh David Dr Bob Miller and he mentioned to me before we went on the call that the state asked reached out to them in partnership with the attorney general to look into he said hemp so I asked about it and I want to play this moment just I want to see what you think about it and obviously if you need time to you know this is off the wire right um but I’m going to play this really quick and it’s honestly this will be my first time watching it back as well so let’s watch it yeah gotcha um so last question and I meant to ask it earlier you had mentioned uh you know possibly working uh and I’ve heard the state mention this before uh that they would be working with the the AG to kind of do something about hemp um was it the idea that you’d like be helping them with the the hemp testing as you said since you do hemp testing or what’s what’s the idea there um I I yeah my my understanding is they want to un and again it’s it’s all the states are sort of it’s on their agenda about how do we regulate this and as part of Regulation I think one of the first things is what’s out there and I think so where where they’re starting with is saying okay what what are they seeing out in the the marketplace and how do we you know based on those findings how do we then put some level of tighter control um with that so um from what I’m understanding they do want to start doing some I’ll call it surveillance think of a better word surveillance testing where they go in and buy product just to see what it looks like much like what we did in Pennsylvania at the request of the Department of Health it’s a similar type of approach it seems like Illinois as our other states are really starting to amp up this whole area just to see what’s out there and then I think with the premise being once they find that like what are we going to do to control it regulate it because that my you know my expectation is it’s it’s going to be quite varied what we’re going to find that’s very very interesting to hear so um that’s kind of what I thought they were referring to they had said you know that this is a a big public safety issue and that they’d like to do something um and I figured that that’s I mean what else would you do other than you know checking what’s out there so that you can more authorative say like so I don’t know if I’m going to check the transcript see if he says anything else about this but just off the off of that any thoughts yeah I have several um so let’s let’s go back to that comments the the comments from the lady you were talking about the first time you she says if we eliminate or not I’m sorry if we if we regulate hemp or close the loophole 95% of our problem go away who’s our who are we who are we talking about here well I’ll try to answer this question if let’s do that yeah piece by piece so they say social equity and The Regulators I was gonna say well it’s it’s a mixture of social equity and what they call a consumer protection issue and they even said that she this is a quote I don’t want anybody in Illinois consuming something that was cut with by for Malahide and everybody in the room went I don’t know if you remember that um that seems like it’s not safe for consumption but I’m not a scientist uh so a statement like that is basically akin to saying all because one product in the cannabis dispensary was contaminated with mold all all cannabis products are contaminated with mold so like that that’s like just straight up fearmongering it right there um and so like the I don’t understand the the equity component to this other than that Equity people who have qualified for social Equity have been promised something by the state uh and and the state has created a social Equity component to their own uh uh I guess I would say like abject failure like total chaos this like multili multi- Agency State Legal but federally not legal cannabis like it’s a total disaster uh and so like anyone who is um defending the state’s right to have this insane disaster play out and continue to play out and then to like use social Equity as sort of like a uh a bargaining chip to say that that that well obviously the the state regulations of cannabis need to continue because social Equity is so important it’s it’s like Phil always likes to say the last person that said well hey maybe I think they pontificated out loud maybe even on my podcast I’m not I can’t remember exactly but maybe license limitations aren’t a part of social Equity see you can’t say things like that because that is part and parcel of what it is you know right right so like yeah go out and take a poll of all social applicants ask them one question are you happy with the current state of Illinois cannabis regulation I think we all know the answer to that and the the the the way that they’re sort of saying like this loophole is hurting us it’s hemp is legal federally uh and that’s what’s making our enforcement hesitant to crack down on it it’s like well that’s not going to change um it is what it is it’s been that way for five years years for you to come out and say it’s a public safety issue and it’s all contaminated with form Malahide it’s it’s nothing more than just fear-mongering politics like I I I to to dive into the substance any other any other points that you make in your in your argument that this is what needs to happen it’s it’s like it’s to give you validity to uh uh an argument that is just completely superficial and invalid when it comes to federal law when it comes to agriculture when it comes to Farmers and hemp yeah like farmers and hemp don’t care about the Illinois cannabis industry we’re a national group of people who are who are trying to um establish an uh an alternative crop an alternative row crop and and the benefits of that the extracts of that all of that is part of our industry um and and for your little State uh regulation your little State scheme where you’re shooting fish in a barrel um we don’t want any part of that we’re we’re beyond that we’re outside of that and because hemp hemp is like what you’re saying is hemp is National like your Market is National like the market for Illinois hemp could be in every state yeah but like the Cannabis Market it’s like just this little market in Illinois right but they’ve made a lot of promises they’ve collected a lot of money they’ve they’ve codified a ton of laws and legal language hundreds and hundreds of pages uh cannabis regulation and Tax Act cannabis control act like there’s there’s so much uh uh money to be made bureaucracy to be navigated and all of it is self-imposed it’s something that it um the cura ipsum which means you cure yourself you created this problem and then you create the solution to this problem and then you act like a hero that’s that’s what the Cannabis industry and Illinois is all about right now that that’s what I always said was the worst idea was it was like the worst person to put in charge of managing social equity in Illinois is Illinois because they made the market in the first place yeah like you should have just like that’s the best argument for an open market is that the Illinois government should have no hand in picking who gets a cannabis license just just that it’s it’s as expensive as it is and and that only medical patients can do homow like if it’s not legal to grow it’s not legal right right so like hemp hemp is the total opposite of that it’s plant as many acres as you can experiment learn uh try to find markets like build this new alternative crop that oh by the way also happens to be really beneficial for the environment etc etc yeah so so and you know it’s a it’s all part of the new biobased economy and and local Eon like it’ll help bolster local economies bring manufacturing back to the United States like there’s so many benefits that hemp brings but we can’t stop focusing on local like state level cannabis licenses we can’t stop focusing on the fact that the state wrote checks that its ass can’t cash basically is what I’m saying you know what I mean like we we we’ve collected an absurd amount of money and built this entire scheme uh around this and now federal law is make is all the walls are coming crashing down and we’re trying to preserve it like we’ve got we’ve got a a teaspoon and we’re bailing water out of a sinking ship yeah I wanted to just more clearly vocalize I mean you kind of said it yourself but if I could just read a quote uh just and you know we’ve pretty much address this but Aaron uh Johnson again our cannabis regulation oversight officer expressed uh that these products either go untaxed or are only subject to retail level taxation making them more affordable than can is this harms our social Equity licenses and she’s expressed a similar Viewpoint in the past she was quoted in cran Chicago business is saying we have to move forward to regulating intoxicating hemp which is a direct competitor to our social Equity licenses I do think the legislature has the appetite to regulate intoxicating hemp who else to be fair she is angling for a future job in the industry so what were you saying Chris that’s good to know Phil a good good point I’m just kidding oh oh I was gonna say that’s not a surprise to me at all no that that’s just Illinois that’s just how that goes I me I did just mention that the former C Deputy is now the head of the Cannabis Business Association of Illinois um so I mean and I believe I believe Pam the realm weren’t Pam El’s plans to go work in the canvas industry somehow I think she like uh hinted or alluded to it when she was on my podcast but it was unclear so I don’t want to you know she left it kind of it was more it was more a threat than anything it was a threat um so hey I’ve got an interesting question about this Chris that I haven’t really thought about you know I’ve talked to a lot of colleges across across this beautiful state and they’ve uh started their hemp programs and one of the great things that Dr DK Lee said over this summer when I stopped by the the hemp Summit was that hey students we’ve got two lanes for you you can either study the industrial route which has many many many different applications as we’ve always said in the Cannabis uh you know legalization movement or he said you know there’s this awesome route you can go down botanically if you’d like to just you know study the Botanical effects so in other words in the University of Illinois and in Southern Southern Illinois University Carbondale and I’m sure other colleges you know that I’m forgetting right now I know that there’s different hemp clubs that have started up I’m going to go speak uh with one um but I guess what I’m saying is do you think those would be maybe allies to to prevent a Crackdown I mean our universities need access uh to the cannabis plant they’ve been granted that through the federal law um and people I I know they like to talk about Bad actors and stuff but what about students you know like think about the the implication of of a Crackdown like that you know yeah absolutely I think and and this is this is a great illustration of how hemp is just inherently Equitable and we don’t need to have social Equity carve outs because it’s it’s agriculture um I mean another another point is uh just as an aside DK Lee and and the whole Illinois University of Illinois Urbana champagne what they’re doing there is incredible they are they are some of the The Cutting Edge Pioneers when it comes to hemp grain they are breeding varieties of hemp that will one day exceed the protein yield per acre that soy does like I I my discussions with DK Lee and my observations in the field I I think it’s possible for hemp to compete with soy as an animal feed product if if we get enough development in that field uh I know I just I just heard something about like the hemp seed is like approved for was it like chicken feed for the first time yeah yeah absolutely like that that’s a great yeah thank you for mentioning that I I wasn’t going to mention that but yeah the the um the market animal feed uh and and like I was saying is like we’re we’re essentially through the efforts of people like DK Lee we will double the yields of hemp seed and protein um per acre uh from Cannabis and like this that that’s a a win for him this is something that that’s what federal legalization brings is the universities get involved the land grant institutions get evolved and yeah you you the amount of of advancement that you will see from University field trials is it’s like light years of of state level legal recreational Cannabis um and and going back to the the state level legal recreational Cannabis um what what I was saying was uh you know that that person is saying that the um hemp is hurting our social Equity applicants who else is it hurting is is my question that very similar to the uh uh our problems right so it’s like that that’s I don’t want to come out and just say like that pce that piece is pure propaganda because I haven’t read it but when you publish something like that like you’re responsible for the content of something like that like you need to at least understand what you’re publishing and when I I see stuff like that out getting put out there and getting taken seriously and and then getting wrapped into this and covered under this umbrella of Public Safety um it it’s really obvious what’s happening and it it’s you’re creating a bureaucracy to collect taxes to fund the bureaucracy that collects taxes uh and and if if you want to like you know go back to speaking about the Illinois hemp rules yeah um uh the the Illinois hemp rules aren’t doing this but there is legislation out there that’s been proposed that that is doing this and I think we discussed this before as well like representative leeon Ford has has been putting um this is probably his third iteration of the bill yeah it’s like 5306 or 5603 5306 remember yeah 536 3790 yeah and that’s the Senate version right um so I read this bill last night um it’s it starts on 100 page 112 and goes to page 220 he is rewriting the entire industrial H act with his bill uh and most of these suggestions are most of these changes are geared towards the retailers the end users um and specifically the Delta 9 and uh really just hemp deriv Delta 9 like they’re going straight after hemp derive Delta 9 um they they accept they create exceptions for full spectrum broads Spectrum isolate um all of these things so they’re they’re not going after anything other than the competition essentially for uh the the state cannabis program um and what they want to do is put a 5 per tax on all sales uh and and also all like they they create four new types of licenses they are dragging in the uh idfpr they’re dragging in the Illinois Department of Public Health they are essentially trying to circumvent the rulings of the federal government when it comes to like the FDA and the USDA uh and what what they classify hemp as and what they approve as a you know a lawful use of hemp um they they’re essentially like you trying to usurp more Authority from the government and uh it it’s it’s kind of a cloudy area like you know the state has primary regulatory authority over hemp as long as they submit a plan that is approved by the USDA so like this the legal language the language like the problem I have with this is like they’re trying to put it all into law and like the these most of this stuff like if you have valid suggestions you should have the idoa just change the rules instead of putting it into the law and I know we’ve talked about that before but this this is a 220 page bill that rewrites the entire Industrial Hemp act uh and is kind of flying underneath the radar it was introduced not too long ago but like I said it’s the third iteration of this all of these suggestions you have to think about this if you’re looking at this bill you have to think about this how are things working now are they working okay for the hemp industry why would we change the hemp why would we change the the the rules and and the law for hemp in Illinois uh like I said before this this bill like the purpose of this bill is to create a bureaucracy to collect taxes to fund the bureaucracy that collects taxes um it also has a 55% so it it dumps all of the 5% of the tax money from this bill uh goes into uh the industrial hemp regulatory fund but 55% of that goes into the industrial hemp social Equity Fund and it’s like there is no social Equity problem right now in hemp but if a bill like this passes then probably would be because now you’re creating all these these complicated barriers to entry for the hemp industry right uh and so again cursum right you you are the cure for your own disease you are creating a problem and then you’re solving it so that you can be the middleman and and siphon 5% off of every transaction and and if you want to talk about the amount of money that’s at stake here uh let’s let’s talk about the Cannabis Market in Illinois $1.6 billion in 2023 right that’s that’s what came out of this uh this state for legal cannabis uh out of dispensaries 1.6 billion so let’s let’s say that the hemp industry is equal to that but it’s it’s probably not because we don’t price gouge like the Cannabis industry does um and so let’s say it is let’s say it is 1.6 billion 5% tax on 1.6 billion that’s $80 million 15% of that goes to the idoa 15% of that goes to the idfpr 15% of that goes to the Illinois Department of Public Health and 55% of that goes to social equity and and if you look at the language in this bill that’s talking about social Equity they say we need to do all these social Equity components we need to have you know this department uh figure out how to give loans and how to give assistance to social equity and and and social justice uh qualified people who who are interested in him um but at the end of that section it says but they can also use contractors and third parties so we’re talking about 55 55% of $80 million $44 million going towards third parties and contractors who understand what cannabis Equity is so tell me who are these people because that’s what’s going to happen the Departments the these departments don’t have um the the capacity to enforce off of 15% of that budget like it’s just not going to happen you know it’s going to go out to contractors so they’ve already they’ve created this car out in this bill to to siphon tens of millions of dollars of hemp money towards whoever that that third party contractor might be who can who can fulfill the requirements of social equity for hemp which is a non-existent thing it’s a massive opportunity for corruption and for waste and and the last thing that we need as as an industry right now is more uh tax on the an industry that is just now coming online and and establishing itself people are going to see where this tax money is going and it’s going to have a chilling effect on the entire industry and I know that that was a long rant but I feel like that that’s the key takeaway for this for this bill uh and whatever versions of this bill come out thank you for addressing that I was going to ask you like because I know there’s these rules but then I if you couldn’t tell I had that Illinois news joint article prepared because I had also heard there there were these bills uh Phil any thoughts on that yeah know just that’s just totally powerful course for Illinois right like yeah have bureaucracy that makes more tax money that can fund more bureaucracy and just cannibalize businesses in the process yeah I feel like it doesn’t it doesn’t really matter that it’s hemp like it’s just that’s just kind of our par for the course like whatever it is we need to regul over regulate and tax it it doesn’t matter what it is we need to create the opportunity to throw tens of millions of dollars at My Brothers cousins contracting business because they they know you know they qualify for whatever it is we’re looking for yeah I really just think this all comes down to this is the only CH like you know I can [ __ ] all I want on the chinois podcast and now on the co memo about how I hate limited licenses but this is the this is the ch challenge to that system directly and I mean they said it clearly in the quotes that I uh you know said earlier it’s really it’s all about the idea of preventing failure of of this program you know what I mean like even before it’s not just the limited licenses that it’s challenging though too it’s the amount of overregulation right true like there are there are retailers who can sell hemp products and they don’t have to have some 300 to $500,000 camera system that’s hooked up to the Illinois State Police 247 and you know all the like operating procedures that dispensaries go through which are all probably unnecessary but yeah like so it’s a challenge to everything that they’re do absolutely the whole system that’s thank you thank you and I guess the way I was going to go with it but I really appreciate you jumped in there because what you add it it is absolutely a challenge to the system in and of itself I just so um Aaron when she talked about her experience at canra the canra conference uh she said that Illinois stands in quote much better shape compared to many other states to illustrate her Point she cited Michigan’s cannabis Market describing it as a struggling Market she recounted hearing discussions at the conference about cannabis operators in Michigan facing receivership and enduring significant price compression due to their regulatory framework and this isn’t the first time that like somebody from the state of Illinois has kind of used Michigan as an example of a failed Market as you just said earlier Illinois cannabis 2023 Revenue was 1.6 billion Michigan was three billion and the same thing can be said about 2022 I’m not going to pull the numbers up right now folks Google them yourself it’s the same story um so I I don’t know that it’s fair to say that Michigan is a struggling Market but I guess to wrap it around to the the reason I’m bringing this up is if hemp could cause something like that right if if it is a direct competitor and it causes price compression which is one of the things that they apparently work to prevent if it causes price compression it could cause receivership and they say those are the two things that they don’t want to happen that uh their office works every day to prevent things like that happening prices falling and people going out of business right because that’s the government’s job um I just yeah I just don’t think it just doesn’t make any sense at all because if if if Michigan is taxing at the same percent as Illinois then they’re taxing nearly twice as much revenue so the state is twice as well off so I would call that I would call that double the success yeah now that that was just Revenue I people will bring that up and I’ll I can Google that really quick but I do think Illinois does bring in actually kind of a comp comparable figure when it comes to tax revenue um per year because we are taxing it much higher um you know so sometimes they’ll say well that’s that’s a sign of success you know well are we taxing it higher or are prices just triple in Illinois what they are in Michigan that’s a good point so like if the percentage that you’re pulling from the market is greater is the same but the revenues like yeah I mean a gram in Illinois is 20 bucks it’s still 20 bucks it’s insane uh you can I was in Michigan and last time I was there I was able to get five one gram cartridges of distillate for $100 that is roughly $500 worth of product in Illinois right B you oh sorry I I I would say that the stuff for Michigan actually tasted better too yeah Phil I was going to give Phil the opportunity you want to share story yeah I mean you can get grams a distillate for like $7.50 you know this is from an $80 ounce it’s uh it’s the price we should be really people just buy more yeah I I agree with that you can buy more you can enjoy it more and you can share it more um and it shows in the total revenue because that’s three billion in in Michigan where prices are 50% or 33% of what they are in Illinois and they’re doing double the gross so like that means they’re selling four to six times as much product in Michigan yeah the problem that we have with it is that it’s not coming out of it’s not it’s not coming out of only 21 businesses in Illinois based on uh that’s another insane thing is like we you’re only allowed to have one cultivation Center per Police District right uh and and you know it’s wide open in Michigan comparatively uh and so yeah it it’s it’s strugg it’s struggling to see consolidation from a few msos that’s that’s what it’s struggling to do um but otherwise yeah I mean everyone from the every surrounding State around Michigan knows Michigan’s the place to go yeah and I’m displaying the figures for 2022 I couldn’t find them for 2023 but for 2022 or well yeah from from fiscal year sorry 445.6 million in fiscal year 2022 for Illinois but for Michigan 325 million so we still they still sold more than us they I want to be clear about that they still did sell more weed than us um but but they’re only doing a 10% which is it’s more in Illinois it’s 10 and six is what it said in Illinois it’s like uh 30 25 and 20 something like that depending on whatever category it is so yeah I mean all the numbers add up like it’s it we don’t want to be any part of it we don’t we don’t think hemp has any relation to it like the the whole ecosystem that you’ve created it’s like um it’s like apple it’s like you you’re either a part of the ecosystem or you’re not and if you’re part of the ecosystem like you think you’re better than everybody else I guess is the way to say it like uh you know you’re willing to pay triple for something that does the same thing but you’re part part of a like an exclusive Club yeah yeah um well any other thoughts on the rules that were pres presented or proposed I guess you said they took a comment it was several months ago now they’re just what’s the state of them yeah they well they published them in the register so they’ll be doing another round of public comments on the you know the final propos Rule and we will be participating in that we don’t have a ton of comments for them based on what they’ve changed like the first time they tried to change stuff we had a lot of comments we made some very detailed suggestions um the only suggestion of ours that they took was they added language regarding micro greens so now if you’re a hemp grower and you want to grow micro greens for production and you know just sell them at a farmers market or whatever you don’t have to get them tested which it’s it’s a win it’s a win it’s a very minor win but it’s a win so we’ll we’ll take that uh and uh like the that we we appreciate that and then based on seeing what they said this time around um we didn’t have a whole lot of comments for them we would like them to change there’s there’s three places in the rules where we want to change the phrase hemp to Raw Industrial Hemp plant material which they use elsewhere in the rules uh and and we want to do this because it it it’s a clarifying thing we as we read these rules we think that that is their intent but the phrasing and the like the usage of the word hemp versus like raw plant material uh seems to be a little bit uh misaligned so our one of our comments is we would like to see you say raw hemp plant material here instead of just plain old hemp um and then really there’s not much more beyond that the the other part of it is you know we really would still like to see performance-based sampling language included in this um rule set because that language is provided by the United States Department of egg um they they crafted this PBS performance-based sampling system uh and said you know if there’s some way that you can enable hemp to be grown to to ensure that you know you’re growing compliant plants without having to do the whole Laboratory Testing thing then by all means please do and they weren’t very specific and they said you know it’s up to the state to take care of their people and to figure out how to do this reasonably and and in a way that satisfies their own requirement uh and so um in Pennsylvania they’ve actually done this so it’s it’s a really great like there’s a memorandum on the Pennsylvania Department of a website that explains exactly what I’m talking about Pennsylvania did it we we made this this exact comment like literally what Pennsylvania has put into their rules we made this exact comment almost a year ago now it was 11 months ago we said you need to include performance-based sampling language for for just regular cultivators and this is how you do it and then literally Pennsylvania did it and Illinois decided not to do it the only thing they decided to do again was to add the micro greens language so that is going to be the other part of our comment when we get the opportunity we’re going to say please change these three little technical things and also please reconsider including performance-based sampling language as Pennsylvania has so recently done yeah um I’ve got a like a kind of a like a higher level question here so I wanted to give Phil the space did you have any thoughts on that specifically yeah true um so you know I don’t mean to take us back to this but it just seems like all of this is about is the quote quote intent of the law like everybody brings up like this was not the intent of the law like and I I want to like go in two ways with this like first of all none of those Representatives actually wrote that bill I would be willing to argue it’s usually written by other people you know what I mean in in the farm bill right I mean just like all other bills it’s like some other organization writes it and they like get the person to introduce that language you know what I mean um yeah it’s all done by committee yeah and then it’s reviewed by another committee so but I mean like this whole this whole idea of this wasn’t the intent of the law I’ve kind of been asking lately I’m like but maybe it was maybe like somebody silently was at the back of the room like just shut the [ __ ] up about this they don’t understand what they’re regulating I wrote the law if they just [ __ ] sign this into law we’re good it it’s hard to put the cat back in the bag I mean that’s kind of how I feel about this lesea Ford Bill too if if they actually P like it’s so poorly written that if they actually pass it it will be it will just be bedum um but no I think it’s the opposite with with the farm bill like they knew exactly what they were writing the language they use when they talk when they say like isomers and salts of isomers like you know they were talking to a chemist you know they were talking to drug people you know they were talking to the DA and to to think that their intention was anything other than what is like currently happening and like you know everyone says it’s a loophole it’s a gray area it’s this that it’s like just look around you just look around you at what’s happening right now that is the intent if you think it’s not the intent you’re deluding yourself you think that the government is doing something or isn’t doing something that they should be doing when they’re not doing it because they’ve decided that that’s the best way to do it like people people would be in jail right now over all this Delta n hemp and all this thca stuff but they’re not yeah well it’s kind of it’s kind of similar to um like it’s people think it’s like a weird thing to have this like cannabis market and these hemp and this hemp Market but I keep hearing people compare it to like the taxi market and Uber yes you know in terms of regulations and Licensing and uh olop and stuff like that and uh what was the other one I was going to say it’s like well come back for that okay yeah if you if you think of it let me know um I was just going to ask have you ever thought about just dropping the intoxicating compounds and just like focusing like or is that not the is that like because I’ll just stop and ask you that question because that seems to be the issue at hand they’re like they literally said it they’re like you can have you know whatever it just can’t be intoxicating I think there there’s there’s definitely two camps in the hemp industry you know and the national hemp Association is very much in the camp that um anything that produces cannaboids should just be separate like if the intent of the crop is to produce cannaboids it should it should be regulated as cannabis and leave us uh row croppers our our fiber and grain people leave us alone like let us do our agricultural thing we have no interest in in extracting uh and I there’s there’s a a big appeal to that it opens up the floodgates for a big a to get involved um which is a it’s a it’s a blessing and it’s a curse um but it it will accelerate the adoption uh of hemp as like a major crop um but it why would we why would we ignore the opportunity that we have here um with hemp to not just be a um food and fiber crop but but to also provide us with useful chemical compounds um to provide us with a a new way of uh uh creating a like a biobased economy around not you know um compounds that are beneficial for human health uh and can can help uh alleviate symptoms and and treat uh you know uh chronic illness um in in various ways you know if if we as we continue to study these compounds like there are so many benefits like why would we create these separate streams like why do we have to have this division um we I think we just need to step away like as as the Illinois hemp crowers Association like we’re we we have a a bias towards the row cropping the a world because we’re an a organization like we support Farmers first and foremost um but over the years of it being uh exposed to this canabo market and all all the people that are involved in this canabo market like this is part of the the world of AG now like we can’t you like you said the cat’s out of the bag like this to have this amount of Revenue coming off an acre I think is is kind of it’s like it’s mindblowing like it’s it we don’t know what to do with it yet and people are trying to to to slow it down um it’s I mean I don’t want like it’s not like a direct comparison but it’s kind of like what’s happening with AI right now like we people can’t comprehend the changes that are going to happen when this thing becomes more mainstream and more adopted uh 10 years down the road um but ultimately it’s it’s going to lead to some uh some pain but but mostly benefit uh and and that’s that’s I guess why we continue to to operate the Iha is we’ve we see that we can see that that that’s what the future holds for hemp uh and whatever means we need to to employ to to get there uh that that is ethical and responsible that that’s what we’ll do and so we don’t think that hemp cannaboid products are unethical uh or that they’re a loophole um we think that it’s it’s all part of the the intention of developing this crop and and why wouldn’t it be yeah Phil um I wanted to play that clip you referenced a second ago uh and maybe it’ll chalk your memory if if you no oh I was just going to say the other comparison you could make to like this H Market and cannabis Market is at the end of prohibition they allowed for like low potency beer first so it’s you know it’s like this farm bill has almost done that in States like Texas or yeah uh you know Mississippi any other of these really conservative states that don’t have any kind of cannabis market so it’s like loosening the ground you know yeah that’s really interesting I didn’t know that yeah um definitely check that out folks I I’m not super uh familiar with all the details but that’s yeah super cool and I’ve heard of that as well so wanted to play that clip that Phil was referencing it’s from a grown-in panel on hemp DED products something that everybody should consider uh see everyone’s Point yeah I mean the the msos and the folks that went into the marijuana side you know there’s a lot of high upfront costs and there’s a lot of challenges of like how do we appeal you know now there becomes protectionism of an oligopoly because you’ve got a lot of investor monies that are uh that are waiting for a return um and we certainly sympathize that but we you know we think of the the hemp industry as kind of like uber coming into a taxi cab City where you know taxi cabs are a high oligopoly with barriers to entry and some would argue a you know pretty substandard level of service uh Uber comes in unregulated uh with a new business model that is in a regulatory gray area that uh captures the hearts and minds of of the uh of the consumer and then the regulations kind of get back ended into that industry and so we see that kind of happening in the on the hemp side in terms of uh thought that was just a a good analogy never really thought of it that way you know so yeah I I love the comparison and I think the scale is correct um but I still disagree with the whole gray area loophole terminology that that we’re using here but but yeah exactly I think it it and right like you’re gonna continue to see efforts backdoor or backend efforts to um regulate him after the fact um but I you know I think we should we should as the state the state has already proven that they failure to regulate cannabis um they should step back and let the federal government do you know the slow progress of the federal government will will lead to a unified market for cannabis in general for cannabis and hemp across the US um States can’t do this they especially after all the history we have like states are it’s like it’s just re for madness 2.0 is and there’s there’s many ways to just Express that I I feel like you know if if you think that cannabis needs to be that heavily regulated you’re you’re still participating in this sort of it’s a danger uh and and anyone who’s had any experience with it um knows that it’s not really the case it’s only dangerous when big money is involved yeah and um I want to bring this to close with uh just I I thought this was another small just snippet that really embodies what what hemp is uh like for people so and multi-millions of dollars usually come from The Usual Suspects uh one can get into the hemp uh you know this is the the true American Pathway to normalization and and legalization and that these are Mom and Pop opportunities that present themselves on the hemp side as opposed to corporate entities on the uh on the marijuana side so so I thought that was a really interesting question although you know um that that is that’s kind of the problem right um that’s that is kind of the problem um and I if I could but Chris before I get into that um oh I just realized I was muted but I was going to say except for all the multi-million dollar companies getting into the hemp business oh true yeah true good point there good point well this will actually I’ll kind of I’ll play the own my own question that I asked Chris and maybe you can answer it we’ve kind of already touched on it but again that whole quote of the true American Pathway I believe that that’s accurate um but also I believe that’s right um so you’re going to see a familiar face my question might be a little bit too Illinois specific but after thinking it might apply to all others and it was kind of touched on in this discussion um it seems like there’s a consensus that that issue with high schoolers and and that type of stuff is is not what we want as people trying to be responsible in the space and as somebody I think it was Jennifer maybe pointed out earlier many operators came together in Illinois uh to to agree that you know we should be taxed we should be tested we should be labeled uh if we’re going I’ll stop for the record really quick obviously uh chrisy voice that maybe you weren’t a part of that I ideally I think you would have agreed to all of those things uh except for maybe the taxing part of it um but I just allow me to finish the question really quick I just wanted to say that for the record because you know I I just brought that back up so going to be selling in tox icated intoxicating cannaboids and I hosted a debate around this subject and it it seemed to shift from that Health concern to a debate around limited licensing and open open licensing and the things that Chris was saying earlier about it being the true American Pathway to legalization with no barriers to entry is seen as something that would dilute the market so again not to get too Illinois specific but I do I’ll just stop it there because we’ve kind of already touched these bases you know it’s it really it’s I don’t I I think the reason I just keep going on about it is because it’s just so mind-numbingly frustrating you know that this is really where we’re standing right now you know and that like again just to go back to one of those quotes that said local law enforcement is reluctant to do anything when people have hemp I’ve been asking like isn’t that a win I thought we wanted cops to leave people alone in the context of cannabis possession and and use you know so isn’t that a win like you’re saying the way it was said was as if it was a bad thing you know um so exactly exactly and yeah and what I didn’t mention earlier was in that bill that’s that’s proposed um they it creates the opportunity to charge miners with felonies for possession of him the bill we were just discussing by Sean Ford yes that’s correct didn’t wasn’t one of the main features of the crta is that it did remove criminalization for kids I mean it wasn’t just a slap on the wrist but it was like Hey you know kind you know kind of in parody with alcohol at least that’s how I understood it to be yeah in in that bill he references um section four of the Cannabis Control Act and if you look at the penalties in section four it includes felonies for possession of over 100 grand s so no matter what age you are gotcha yeah I mean we just had a medical no apparently even if you have a medical card uh you can get charged with that so you know yeah so it it but what it’s doing is doing that but for him which is federally legal there’s no limit on what you can possess wait so we’re adding a possession limit yeah re criminalizing cannabis yes and and also so if if this incident happens to occur while you’re operating a motor vehicle you also lose your license if you’re a minor right so it you know this is the problem with bills that are 220 pages long um the law should be very simple it should just direct the department to do what it needs to do to make make it work it shouldn’t have 300 pages of complexity that can put your kid in jail and charge him with a felony at age 19 and pulled a driver’s license for having a couple ounces of hemp in the in the trunk or whatever yeah do you think it’s if I could just like do you think that it is so for example JB pritzker had his State of the State today he had a graphic and one of his accomplishments was launching the adult use cannabis industry obviously he likes to talk about that a lot do you think that conceding is it the con session of the system itself that’s the issue like would that be seen because he wants to put it on his belt you know he might even run for president I hear obviously we don’t know but um like I I what I just don’t understand the rigidity to the the dumb system that was created you know like why are we trying so hard to protect it um I think it’s an incredible achievement for tax revenue and for a select group of Highly funded business owners it’s a it’s an incredible achievement to deliver such a protected Market to um your your large corporations like it is uh but J JB is an heir to a large corporation so like it it’s like growing up as as the prince of England and not knowing that like not everybody’s as rich as you you know like for him to say it’s one of his achievements it absolutely is he’s delivered for for the the you know the corporate managerial class that that seems to think they’re entitled to all of the profits uh from cannabis Phil thoughts on that amen well just that I think like the legislators kind of got like rolled over by the lobbyists for these big companies and they passed a law that was so lopsided in the favor of those companies that like I mean they don’t really have much incentive to change it but like the regulators and all these people who are just in charge with enforcing it like what the [ __ ] else are they supposed to say right like they just keep like Towing the line like if they don’t tow the line they don’t stay around Long like look at uh Danielle Perry yeah yeah yeah we we miss her we liked her a lot we saw her at um at Nan and um we really loved what she was doing but she didn’t last more than about a year well she she did dare to hypothesize that uh social Equity might mean adding more licenses or removing caps entirely and I don’t know if that was exactly what got her job taken away but it might have been like on the list yeah yeah um I just yeah I also miss Daniel Perry I just have to always add like for posterity she this is how cool she was they this the state of Illinois still has this post up who is the cro tune in the Illinois podcast hopefully hopefully we can make something like that happen again that’d be real cool um so yeah Cole you are the um you’re the the foremost voice in discussion around cannabis in the state I feel like if if not beyond the state like there’s no one that that consistently and steadily creates content like you thank you Chris thank you yeah it’s it’s a I don’t know it’s fun I like talking about it so but um I and I want to thank you all for always being willing to talk to me at length on these subjects Phil and Chris um I think it’s like important to really flush these things out at length because there is a lot to this and you know um yeah I think people just hear the sound bites about those stories that we referenced the um the children with the Delta 8 you know and and they just think well let’s make it illegal and it’s like we have to learn from the mistakes of the past that you know the criminal law is not ever the answer I you know it’s it’s funny I almost said not always the answer it’s not ever the answer really in regard to like simple possession or cultivation of you know cannabis drugs I’ll even go that far I don’t know if everybody agrees with me on that one but um yeah so most drugs will say yeah yeah pretty wacky drugs out there yeah there are some crazy ones uh Chris uh well Phil uh anything before I give Chris the last word any like questions that come up or anything no thank thanks for another good talk yeah I guess I do have just like one last question Phil I think you’ll like this one it’s a quick one I think Chris uh am I just like allowed to grow hemp you know I was wondering this too I I tried to look it up at one point I thought you had to be like on an agricultural lot or something like that yeah so that that’s true um you have to be licensed to hemp legally um and to in order to get a license approved by the department this is this is what they’re adding into the the requirements is the FSA so you have to you have to go to your FSA and say I want to grow hemp and then they’ll look at the property that you have and say it’s not possible for you to grow hemp there because you’re not a farm that that’s that’s the the piece there that is you know before it was it’s the language was still there the language of uh i60 Illinois like property tax or just Illinois tax code i60 um I can’t remember which what exactly the the phrase is there but i60 um and it says like you need to be classified as a farm to grow hemp and when I kind of dug into it it’s like you don’t really need to be zoned agricultural like the the classification of a farm according to the USDA is any property that’s used to generate $1,000 worth of produce every year and it’s not necessarily that you actually even have to have the revenue uh of $1,000 of produce every year it’s just that you have to have the plan to produce ,000 doll of produce every year so like I know I’m getting like way into the this but basic there never is with it never is but but I’ll try to make it quick so it’s okay what I would say is if you want to grow go to your FSA and talk to them first before you go and talk to the department because the to for the department they what they want is for you to submit a $100 application fee and then you might find out that you’re not allowed to grow whereas if you go to the your local FSA everyone’s got one in their County go to your local FSA and say I want to grow him and then they talk to them it’s free that’s their job so yeah it sucks to have to deal with another department another organization when it comes to you just wanting to grow some hem but it’s their job to help you it’s their job to to make sure that you’re if you’re sending in $100 for an application fee that you’re not just wasting your money and and the other part of that is maybe your FSA doesn’t know and they’ll say reach out to your local local town ship or look for your local ordinance if in your local ordinance if you go reach out to your city council or whatever and they say yeah we don’t have any you know you’re on a Halfacre lot yeah you’re not a farm but uh if you want to grow a quarter acre of hemp you whatever your backyard’s fenced off just do what you got to do you know and and you it may still all work for you but the minimum indoor size is still 500 square foot the minimum outdoor size is still a quarter acre so it it comes down to your local and then it comes down to your your local government and your uh your local FSA if you can get they’re just regular people if you can get those regular people on board because you’re like hey I’m not you know this isn’t a meth lab this is this is me wanting to just grow some plants then you have a great shot uh and if if all your ducks in a row and then you go to apply for a license with the idoa that then you you’re G to get it so you can’t just grow you got to be licensed and yeah there’s there’s a little bit of backstory there but you can always reach out to us uh the ihda illino h.com um give us a call or or send us an email or or or post on our Forum or there’s many ways for you to get a hold of us uh and we can help you navigate you know in in a personalized way cool illino hg. comom and maybe next time we can get into the backstory behind that because that sounds like somebody like me probably caused trouble and now there’s that rule or something like that yeah they call it the coal qua yeah Yep they’re always coming up with something well uh Phil did you have any thoughts I wanted to give you some space before we close I think I think you have some homework of introducing yourself to your local FSA and finding out if you can grow hemp in your backyard yep yep gota figure that out that’s right that’s right uh Chris I wanted to give you the space because I asked you that last question any anything that we didn’t talk about or anything that you wanted to mention in closing uh no just a quick reminder that um we have an event March 27th uh in Springfield um so please join us and look out be on the lookout for um our hemp Lobby day coming up in May of this year absolutely folks absolutely um you can follow them on uh social media illino hga once again illino hg. comom I’m displaying the graphic for the event March 27th that’s the Afterparty starts at 3 pm that same day as Chris said there’s the Illinois hemp Summit 2024 and uh yeah all right well Phil Chris thank you so much for joining me on this episode I had a great time with you and I’m looking forward to the next conversation that we have I always enjoy our conversations so yeah it was a pleasure thank thank you both absolutely good to talk again all right audience I hope you enjoyed this one take care