The Cole Memo

In this episode, I sit down with Ryan Crandall, the Chief Revenue Officer at MariMed Inc., to discuss the company’s latest developments. We explore MariMed’s recent acquisition of a craft license in Illinois, we discuss limited licenses & open licensing approaches, we discuss the hemp industry, implications of cannabis decriminalization, the ongoing discussion over rescheduling, and more.

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Links mentioned in show

• Interview with CEO Jon Lovine can be viewed here
• https://marimedinc.com/
• https://thecolememo.com/2024/02/06/craft/ 
• https://ir.marimedinc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/166/marimed-to-acquire-illinois-craft-cannabis-license-allowing
• https://www.marijuanamoment.net/biden-administration-official-disputes-rumors-of-imminent-marijuana-scheduling-decision-amid-heightened-speculation/

The auto-generated transcript is below.

hello folks this is the Cole memo I’m your host Cole Preston every episode is released in audio video and transcript format to find the transcript audio or video version of any episode please refer to the description that you’re listening to now within the description of this episode you can find a link that will take you to our website which will display the transcript for this episode and the platforms where you can find this episode in audio or video formats if you’re unable to locate the episode description on whichever platform you’re listening from Simply note the episode number and visit the memo.com folks I just rolled out new search functionality so uh just search in the episode number that you’re listening to now and it’ll pull it right up you can find the corresponding episode from there and like I say you’ll be able to see that audio video and transcript version you might also find any links that we reference during this episode if you’re not listening to this episode of the Cole memo on patreon then you’re listening to this episode later than our patrons to become a patron go to the colo.com patreon this show is supported by listeners like you it only costs $3 a month and you get the shows as they release but one but one of the best ways to support our show is absolutely free just subscribe to the show follow it leave a positive review or share it with your friends your engagement and support is appreciated today is February 7th 2024 boy we’re already getting through this year um I am so excited to welcome Ryan from marimed Ryan how’s it going good afternoon Cole how are you sir I’m doing well I’m doing well uh go ahead and uh introduce yourself uh to our audience tell us what you do with mared and uh we’ll go from there sure sir thank you hey um Ryan Crandle so I’m with mared I am the chief Revenue officer at mared also uh one of the founders of Betty edes and uh we are a multi-state operator and uh just uh are about to get our products widely distributed in the state of Illinois so very exciting time yes indeed indeed um you just got into the Illinois cannabis industry I actually spoke with I think it’s your CEO uh John LaVine at uh benzinga so I’ll be releasing that interview alongside I real I was looking for it online and I was like huh that’s been a patreon exclusive for I guess months now so that’ll be rolling out alongside this interview so folks check that out um it’s a it’s a quick one cuz I caught him caught him off stage and he was kind enough to speak to me um but yeah thank you for joining me today I really appreciate it um is it meed.com what’s the website so that folks can uh sure yeah http://www.m mared inc.com perfect perfect I’ll try to throw that in the podcast description if that if that makes it easier on you folks um curious Ryan how’d you find yourself in the Cannabis industry dude oh man it’s uh it’s an interesting story for each one of us right um you know my short story my my ab bridged version is uh you know I’ve always been a cannabis Advocate whether uh you know you know kind of openly or not um I’ve always been the Edibles guy in my in my clan so you know I I uh I always like kind of turn an oils into into edible products and and that was really my entry way you know we um I had a group of folks that we formed a not for-profit we applied for a license in Mass we were unsuccessful But ultimately uh me and a group of folks took that business plan and developed uh what would become Betty’s Eddies and ultimately sold that brand into mared and then came on to you know work within that company to to drive our overall brand portfolio gotcha so how did you get into making uh Edibles I I know you said it was specifically like infusions but like I’m sure you started with Edibles right and like the col or something yeah I mean I I think I smoked a good amount first I those were my first four rays in cannabis was definitely smoking but you know once I realized that you know cookies and brownies I you know I had friends that did those things for sure but um you know I guess it didn’t get really interesting for me until we started to make caramel we started to make caramels um you know in like 2010 and uh you know we’d bring them to parties and you know different like football games and stuff like that and hand them out and they were a hit um and you know we continued to refine that recipe and do better and you know one of the partners was a expert grower so you know I we started we started to grow flower and then we started to learn different extraction processes and you know the original version of Betty’s was made with bubble has you know um and so you know everybody’s going to solventless today and you know Betty’s back in 2011 2012 was making everything with bubble hash so you know we learned butane extraction we learn learned solventless extraction we learned a lot of different methods uh for getting oils to a state where where you could Infuse them and then you know ultimately while learning about a lot of those extractions we were out in Oregon on a business trip my wife tried a fruit shw recipe at home and when we came home we tried it and it was like it was amazing it it took caramel what we liked of the caramel recipe and everything we liked about like a starburst type candy brought it together and and we had it for cannabis and um so yeah we we knew we had something magical kind of early on and it was a group effort it wasn’t just me it was a you know a concerted group of folks that that over years put a lot of time and energy into making uh the brand what it became or what it has become today yeah and uh if you want to are those some behind you there is that some Betty Eddies do you want to show them to the camera so that maybe people know what they look like would love to yeah so so um you know this is a bag of Smash and passion right so um this is a Massachusetts bag so there’s 10 10 shoes within this bag and they’re five milligrams of THC each um you know we do indicate ation specific um you know flavors so you know this is all about it’s an aphrodesiac chew you know so um you know the idea would be you’re going to take this with your significant other and um you know and enjoy cannabis as well as the aphrodesiac right and then you know our number one bestseller historically within Betty ever since we launched it has been bedtime Betty so bedtime Betty is um you know really all about helping people with sleep and uh you know we get a variety of doses doses for different people because you know different doses for different folks right um we also now have a version that has melatonin and a version that does not have melatonin um and we’re continuing to enhance um that that platform you know we have a pain relief skew an energy skew a stress relief skew and we really do believe that we’re not just saying it and then just throwing THC in these products or a little bit of CBD we are creating you know minor cannaboid cocktails with you know herbal supplements to create a delicious chew that delivers on effect that is what Betty edes does Mata and did you say that you’re selling that in Illinois yet or preparing to yeah they’re shipping uh we are actively filling dispensaries vaults as we speak right now oh cool yes that’s a recent development huh yeah yeah I think um you know we started we’ve started shipping I think first couple orders out went out in December but they were a trickle uh so you know January it really picked up and February it’s kind of we’re hitting on all cylinders now uh getting you know we’re full full trucks every day going out and uh and filling stores as quickly as we can yeah so just to uh you said you started as like a an infuser or something in Massachusetts where you like a a licensed infuser or a licensed brand and then you got purchased or joined mared rather or how did that a little bit more complicated story no I mean so my story in Mass was more of one that really wasn’t much success right we um me before Betty’s you know we applied for a license in the state of Mass and ultimately didn’t didn’t get the license right uh we didn’t score high enough so coming out of that was really where Betty started per se um you know and I would say we started in Colorado uh you know we brought the brand the product the LI you know the imagery everything to Colorado we ended up never selling a product you know we we uh and through no fault of own we partnered with a group out there and I’ll I’ll leave their name out of it um but ultimately you know we were uh down in peblo we built out a kitchen completely you know we paid for all the licensing for the edible side of the license and then they endend up screwing up their their overall license on the cultivation side and the thing never got open so you know I mean we had we had a lot of money so soaked in we had we had relocated a person out there to be our M manufacturer and over two years we never sold a product we had sellable product but we had no way to sell it and uh so that was tough man I mean you know you know the speed bumps and hurdles that Brands I mean the the success story behind any brand is persistence and I guess that was our biggest first hurdle um after that you know I I had a relationship with what would become become mared so John LaVine and Bob fireman and um you know through them they had a partnership that they were working with GTI in Illinois when GTI was getting started in the medical program and what ended up happening was um you know through Mar while Betty’s was still ours uh you know we licensed Betty’s through mared to GTI and it quickly became gti’s number one selling brand on the edible side and so you know mared knew they had something special GTI knew they had something special and we did too and at that point you know we continued the conversations with um our CEO then was Bob fireman and ultimately mared purchased the brand and two months later I came on to run product and sales and um one of my other founders ERS uh our other founders of Betty is our coo Tim Shaw very cool very cool um uh forgive me you know for putting you on the spot here but can you spill the beans do you guys have other plans for products in Illinois I mean I’ve because I talked to John and he mentioned Betty’s edes and stuff uh What uh are you able to tell any plans that you might have I’d be happy to yeah I’d be I’d be thrill actually yeah I mean we are um we are not just Betty’s betties right Betty is a is a marquee brand for us we’re very proud of Betty and we’ll continue to develop and innovate betties but Betty’s does not define mared uh there we are defined by Brands so I would say the other brands you are in market right now Bubby’s baked oh yeah so you’re gonna Bubby’s baked in a major way um we’ve done a lot of Market Research in the markets that we do uh that we operate and we feel as though the the one of the places where you know we’ve got a great competitive Advantage versus the products that are avail available is Bubbies uh we have a superior soft baked product so you know when visiting Colorado visiting these markets that have been out for a while I mean most of the cookies and confection products are hard and and tend to get stale um so you know when you look at a cookie you know in a grocery store you got the chips aoy version and then you got kind of a soft soft baked version and you know we feel as though you know we’ve mastered a soft baked version of a brownie of a chocolate chip cookie of a Snicker doodle of a of a blueberry muffin that we deliver um you know to a cannabis consumer you know that has a a very good shelf life with all natural ingredients uh but stays moist um and so that’s you know we feel as though and we’re seeing early signs in Illinois with our shipments and our orders and the reorders that Bubbies baked is gonna is going to make a b Major Impact in Illinois so we’re very excited about Bubbies um second to Bubbies uh you’ll be seeing in the next month or so uh a brand called viations launch so it’s like Libations uh with a V so think Good Vibes meets Libations and and it’s all about you know it’s a liquid IV in cannabis right it’s a powdered drink mix with powdered cannabinoids that mix into water discreetly easily and effectively and and hit you quickly right so it’s a 10minute onset um you know these are I I actually have a bag back here so this is the vibration packaging right so this is our strawberry l Lade you can see right on there it says fast acting it’s in a stick pack right so these come in a stick pack so it doesn’t necessarily have to stay in the child proof resalable packaging I mean if it’s in your home you’d want to keep it that way but if it’s in a secure adult location like a pocketbook I could see somebody put putting a couple of these in there and going to a show or a concert and I mean I’ve been traveling with them um phenomenal product phenomenal product so um in in the state of Illinois we’ll have dosages of 10 milligrams per and and obviously you want to cut it in half you can cut it in half but then we’ll actually have high dose as well um so the option to kind of have a low dose or a high dose beverage in a in a powdered discret version is coming to Illinois very soon what would the high dose be because my definition of high dose and some people’s definition is different what would your high dose be yeah I mean 50 a serving is typically what we talk about for a high dose um Maryland limits us to a 40 but you know with Betty we typically go five maybe a 20 if there’s a place and then a 50 so or the bottom end being 10 and then a 50 but we typically talk about high dose being 50 plus yeah for a serving so are you where what um another Pop Quiz what El what states are mared uh operating in so Illinois sounds like Maryland Massachusetts so we’re fully vertical in Massachusetts in Maryland now in Illinois right so those are our three vertical States we have a management agreement in Delaware where you know it’s a medical program not for-profit medical program so we have a management agreement with the largest cultivation facility there um and then we have licensing agreements for Our Brands uh in Maine Puerto Rico and Rhode Island cool Puerto Rico we have some things that we’re working on right now you say Puerto Rico I did yeah we licensed Our Brands in Puerto Rico and you know we have a retail only in Ohio so we’re building out the state of Ohio but we’re only we’re only at the dispensary level right now in Ohio cool sorry for cutting you off that just really CAU me guard okay I I do want to add to your question previously though you know I I talked about the Edibles Brands so I talked about Betty and Bubbies and vibration yeah on the on the flower side of things you know we do have a craft cultivators license in Illinois that we’re spinning up and uh in Massachusetts uh you know Betty in Nature’s Heritage uh the brand is you know depending on the month the number one one flower brand in the state um and it’s not that we’re selling the most units we’re selling for the some of the most dollars right so we’re getting some of the highest prices per unit at the same time doing volume and scale so so Nature’s Heritage is a is a boohemoth of a brand that stands for Quality um you know every jar is hand trimmed and you know really really you know crafted flower high-end flow and you know pre-rolls handrolled pre-rolls you know butane concentrates uh you know bubble has rosin you know infused pre-rolls so I mean it really offers everything that a flower uh concentrate consumer is really going to look for in a brand that’s Nature’s Heritage and uh and like I said you know number one or two in Massachusetts depending on the month um you know top five in Maryland and you know we won’t have the canopy to be you know a top uh unit producer in Illinois at least to start but we you know we are going to hit that market and be you know force to be reckoned with because we’ll be crafted you know at a small scale in that state and uh producing some really high-end flower so we’re excited to bring Nature’s Heritage to that market as well very cool very cool yeah and just to give you a plug you know oh yeah this is a uh this is a press release right off of your website I’m going to share for folks that are watching the video version of the podcast and I will also try to throw this link in the description if you want to read up uh this is from January 18th 2022 so I actually just learned about this recently preparing for this interview uh that I remember John saying it but I just didn’t know the finer details of it and so yeah if folks are wondering um mared was uh they you acquired a craft cultivation license basically right that is correct yeah so cool well how is that going how is that going yeah it’s going actually great for for cannabis and you know how licensing and the speed bumps h i mean Illinois has been great uh you know for all the hurdles we deal with in other states you know Illinois seems like they want to get these craft licenses off the ground quickly and seem to be work working really well with the operators so I have really nothing but great things to say about how how expedient the process has been um compared to what we’ve experienced elsewhere gotcha yeah I actually just released a report at least from if you know considerate anecdotal maybe I try to be fair and and actually there’s a lot of things in the article uh that there are like people did disagree on it so I made sure to include um but yeah you know a lot of craft cultivators have been talking about how it hasn’t been uh going so well so I mean I guess it’s good to hear that that that it’s been going well for you guys so far do you have oh I just answered my own question I was about to answer I was about to ask you if you’re operational and it looks like you are yes we are cool yeah cool so um do you have those products that you were talking about you said you will be rolling them out you guys are probably still in the process of growing and stuff right now yeah so we’ve got um Betty are shipping to to uh dispensaries across Illinois today like you said and have been for about a month Bubbies are also shipping across the state in-house is one brand that I didn’t talk about so it’s it’s really our value brand it’s the only brand I didn’t talk about it’s our value brand so you know in-house is offering high quality products but at Value at Value prices so in the places where we can offer value Vape potentially value concentrates um you know kind of baller jar type offerings in in those aspects and still do it with high quality product you know that’s what in-house is and so we’ve been launching in-house disposable Vapes and not disposable I should correct myself you know uh they’re really rechargeable uh all-in ones um so we’re launching those across the state uh in our stores and in other stores and those have been taken off so Bubbies Betty and in-house Vape is really what we’re shipping right now with viations soon to come and then Nature’s Heritage coming after that yeah um well one Illinois specific question I could and I figure this might be right up your alley since you are the chief Revenue officer and I don’t even know what a chief Revenue officer does but the name tell us yeah yeah yeah I mean in a company like ours it’s it’s really being responsible for Topline revenu growth right and how do we grow Revenue our revenue is split between wholesale revenue and Retail Revenue so it really is a little bit of a two-headed monster um you know the teams are very different that run those two divisions but I would say the interesting part is the more that you can understand of what moves the needle at your retail the more that you can understand how to sell into others and you know there’s also the concept of you know reciprocity happening with within state lines and then across state lines so you know that the role of Chief Revenue officer is making sure that our retail operates as effectively as it can and our wholesale does and then that symbiotic relationship between both you know the cleaner that that is um the better the company runs so that’s that’s really it’s at the Nexus of that between wholesale and Retail whoops sorry about that I got my mute caught um so thank you for answering that question and um so for that reason I do think some of my Illinois specific questions may even be softballs for you um we’ll see though uh so one of the one of the parts uh in my article that I just uh released and um like I said I spoke to different craft cultivators on I’m just curious your perspective as an operator some people talk about the size discrepancy and the license that you just got um and this is for the first time I’m ever hearing people talk about this honestly because I’ve floated this idea in the past on my podcast I’m like why are you limited to 14,000 square feet in the past people were just like ah Cole I don’t really it’s not they didn’t literally say Cole I don’t want to talk about it but they were just like Cole like that’s not even really on my radar right now as a a concern but for the first time like I say people are talking about uh one person said you know 5,000 is cool 14 14,000 is better greater than 14,000 is best some people talked about maybe matching the size of the currently established licenses which I think is like 210k um for flowering canopy and and some people still kind of were of the camp that said that they’re not pushing for that at all in fact some of the established licenses that have been operating in Illinois over the last eight years in the medical program still haven’t even built out their entire canopy um so they’re just like let’s just focus on what’s ahead of us I’m curious do you have any thoughts on that topic I mean I feel like everybody would welcome more uh but I’m just curious uh I guess to put a finer point on my question some people said that it it’s hard for investors when you’ve got this license that is so capped right like they would rather you have more at your disposal yeah I mean I look off the off my cuff I can I can give you you know a little bit of an because I mean you catch me a little bit off guard with that but like I I do think generally we would be in support I believe to more canopy you know 14,000 isn’t a ton of space especially when a dispensary count can be limited to 10 in the state so you know if you’re planning to do widespread wholesale as well as feed your own retails I can see where that 14,000 could be a limiting factor if you have a really really great flower product sure um so and I think we do so that’s that’s where my gut instinct would come from I I’d honestly want to take a look at the data of you know how many Craft Bros and what you know what the capabilities are to to really answer specifically but in general um yeah I think I think in general we we typically support larger you know canopy caps um we we’ve definitely seen that um in other states and it’s impacted Us in other states you know from that perspective so I I I um yeah cool cool well uh yeah my apologies for not giving you a heads up this is something that I just started working on recently and just published so I was just curious since I was like oh I didn’t even think about the fact that mareda is a craft grower technically I think it’s great you’re talking about it I think it’s great you’re talking about I mean I think uh you know the flower needs to be grown to be sold so you know giving people an opportunity to grow it and uh and produce you know meaningful results is important yeah yeah absolutely um so I’m curious one of the questions that I asked uh John uh the CEO about which you know it’s it’s pretty actually common place to hear this from most of the new lies like social Equity lenses it’s the idea that you know um if I could find it it’s it’s basically the whoops search is messing up on me here um it’s so I actually found this paragraph that puts it it’s it’s actually about miramed oh and it even has the part that you mentioned about how you’re in agreements in markets like Puerto Rico Maine um and other places um but it says typically mared would not enter an unlimited license market like Michigan and our uh cannabis regulation oversight officer has been talking about that um topic recently um can you explain to my audience why States like Illinois are more attractive than States like Michigan for example because it’s something that that you read about and hear about all the time in the media but I I just wonder if people understand like why you know what I mean sure I mean if you’re placing any business in a location um regardless if it’s cannabis or a hairdresser or a laundromat I mean one of the first things you’re going to do is understand you know who are the businesses that are around you and you know what’s the likelihood that additional businesses are going to arise now you know in conventional business no you know other than liquor stores nobody can really guarantee you that 10 more stores won’t pop up but that’s part of the kind of the pre-work of doing of of doing homework so similar in cannabis you know as we look at different states Landscapes and regulations we’re identifying places where there’s going to be what we call limited license markets and you know uncapped markets so if if you look at a limited license Market you know there’s a certain number of license that will be given out and then and then after that there aren’t any so it’s you know a lot of times those are called the golden ticket um so you know you always want to try and participate in markets that have limited licenses because that’s going to ultimately limit competition within that state Market um from a business perspective that benefits people that get those limited licenses in states that have uncapped licenses um and all you have to do is apply like a Maine um you know and I’m sure there’s many others a Michigan um you know you’re able to apply for a license and get a license and if a thousand or 10,000 other people apply potentially they’re all going to get licenses as well um the risk with that is that you can put a large investment into a cultivation process in series of dispensaries that if a market gets oversaturated you know um even if you’re running a really solid business you know you may go out of business because you don’t you don’t have a profitable Market to offset that market that you’re not making money in so as companies start to grow if they’re smaller companies and they start in the wrong Market that’s not a limited license market and that market starts to really have a downward trend on pricing uh as new stores opening you know it’s it’s um it’s a tough tough place to be um you know we see a lot of companies in markets like that I mean Michigan was selling gummies for $3 a pack um they were at retail at $3 a pack you know most ingredient Cost Plus packaging cost you know are a buck 50 um through two bucks so if if they’re wholesaling them in for a buck 50 and somebody’s got a so there’s just a lot of money being lost in Michigan I think a lot of you know minimiz you know minimization of losses and so that’s scary for people um you know cannabis is hard enough um so I I think I went on a little bit too long at the answer but the reality is limited license markets provide you with a little bit of security that you know you got a little bit more time to build the business and to um you know to build to build your footprint whereas unlimited markets provide um you know a little bit more risk for operators in the fact that you don’t know how big the pool of competition is going to be in a state um and and and yeah I think that’s really the the Crux of it yeah and I was just curious because when you were talking like I was like well gez they must be freaking like losing a bunch of money but I’m actually kind of surprised so Illinois for 2023 got 1.6 billion Michigan sold 3.06 billion yeah how is how would that be happening if what you’re like and I’ve heard of that by way sucking sound I think there’s a huge sucking sound with all the people coming from the bordering states I think there’s a a large you know tourism population that’s generated around just going to Michigan to buy cheap weed and then going back home I think they’ve really started a large sucking sound in that area of the country um as well as you know I mean it’s it is more affordable for people within the state of Michigan so I think I think you know they’re probably grabbing a much larger piece of the black market than most states are is probably the answer there as well as sucking from other states um yeah and it’s interesting you know I kind of read online like debates about the two approaches and that is one thing that I have read about the approach in Michigan it’s like if the goal was to eliminate the Underground Market that seems to be the way to or the idea that there would be people even wanting to participate outside of the legal framework I think that’s the better way to put it because it it’s weird how sometimes um it seems like those people get scapegoated I call them so when I read about him in the police blotter I’m like well that’s just a young unlicensed entrepreneur yes you know I feel I feel bad because uh so so but in the case of Michigan it sounds like or or in States like that like yeah that’s just interesting to me because it almost sounds like that would be the goal of like legalization like if so the fittest right I mean everybody gets an opportunity in survival of the fittest I think right I think you’re right I think the way that the government has rolled this out state to state you know if you want to take a look at what the the rules of the game are in each state and how to maximize the business opportunity by looking at the rules and figuring out how to work best with them then I think you’re as a company you’re looking at like limited license markets I think if you look at it from the other angle like you’re talking about coal ultimately what’s best for you know generally best for business survival of the fittest allow people to you know compete freely yeah I I think well even the consumer like you said when you like you said the consumer too not only in terms of affordability but in terms of like yeah yeah you kind of said it sorry I was about to flip back to the business side it’s it’s like the consumer and affordability and access to the product but then uh one of the things that I was go that I was going to ask you about just with regard to limited licenses it does seem like and you kind of naturally went there it seems like in those States that’s where criminal enforcement continues and I won’t name any names but some people call the approach that Illinois has and the idea of limiting licenses prohibition 2.0 and I don’t know if they mean it that way but like it is remarkable that in those States like criminalization continues and I’m just curious I did ask John LaVine about it like what do you think the appropriate uh and and my apologies I I probably maybe should have sent sent you this ahead of time to just mentally prepare you but what do you think that would be the uh mechanism you know uh because right now it seems like the the primary enforcement mechanism it’s not like if like I feel like if I open up a restaurant or a bar like depending on what doing there it might end up with me going to jail but for the most part it’s like somebody’s going to come in and go hey you can’t do that here’s like a really big fine and we’re gonna put a sign on your door you would hope so right yeah maybe maybe it depends true it depends on what I’m doing if I’m having like a bunch of I mean you’re you know if you’re embezzling money through your credit card machines and your restaurant I don’t know that they’re gonna give you a warning you know they’re probably gonna come in and and bust you after you’ve done a lot of yeah but but I the point doesn’t get lost to me Cole so I think saying yeah it seems like in those cases the answer is it’s serious it’s like you get a sign put on your door this this place is closed and you get in trouble and sometimes they wrote an write a newspaper article about you or whatever but it doesn’t end up with you in the in the cage you know which I always thought was the whole goal and that’s the thing that has always struck me so what do you think like is the maybe better answer because obviously we don’t have yet and I know that’s a tough question but it it’s a tough question I mean and I would say you know there’s R there’s me the person and there’s me the revenue officer working for a public company and so I’ve got to make sure my opinions are clear right I you know I think as the revenue off for Revenue officer for a public company you know we’re very clo we the rules are the rules and we play by them and we try and optimize our business to play by them so that’s the revenue officer talking Ryan Crandle not the revenue office the advocate for cannabis uh you know look I think survival of the fittest is the way that things should operate I think you know personally that it’s it’s a difficult thing that state governments are allowed to tax at exorbitant rates a plant that should now be legal you know and is and is and is providing medicinal benefit for people so you know yeah I I I hear what you’re saying loud and clear you know um I do and I and I you know personally agree with it and I I think ultimately I hope ultimately that things will go in that direction um I you know truthfully as a you know being a a person you know the United States my whole life personally I I think capitalism you know the way that states license things whether it’s you know uh you know whatever it is States states are you know bringing money in the coffers through taxes so I don’t think we’re going to see a day where cannabis isn’t taxed even though I think it would be the right thing to do yeah yeah well said a lot of people always said it’s never going to become legal until they can tax it right so that’s true um well what just one quick point and I only say this because I saw it on Twitter this morning and and you happen to say something similar to it and I’m just curious what your response would be and it’s it’s just my lame way of looping in the name of my show too um you said as you said your answer as the cro cro is that you have to play by the rules yeah well technically speaking you are playing by the rules but you’re also a like uh committing federal crimes uh if not if not for the Cole memo and I hope you get the reference I do get the reference I get the reference uh yeah so I mean I think think you know with the Cole memo it told us that if we do play by the rules at the state level so I guess you could say yeah you’re still playing by rules we playing by the rules yeah so I think it’s still a true state fair enough fair enough I just think it it’s another ironic thing where only because some operators are a little bit more there’s this one clip that admittedly I think is a little bit taken out of context right now that’s kind of going viral about an operator calling for the criminalization of cannabis I mean they’re definitely you could say saying that um but I also think just given the greater context that uh you know anyways um when you see that like that’s you know it just that’s why I bring that up because it’s like you’re talking about keeping criminalization going yet if we want to talk about what’s actually going on yet right you’re saying you’re a Biden by the eight strictures of the Cole memo but in all seriousness you you’re still like doing a federal crime yes you know so yes and have been for a long time now yeah you know and you know as being the revenue person for a company I mean I’m responsible for all the sales so it’s like if I mean every every you know unit of cannabis sold is ultimately you know in a forecast right so it’s uh yeah I mean we we we are very very focused on abiding by state regulations in every in every state we do business and and if the line is here we’re One Step Beyond the line and trying to be ahead of it um you know from childproofing to you know the designs on packaging to you know safety of of how we make the products so you know we always we put quality first we put safety for our consumers first and uh you know we we want to run a company legally and responsibly um for the benefit of our shareholders so that’s that’s what we do every day that’s what we that’s what we’re focused on um you know but certainly you know the advocacy within cannabis uh is something that’s important to all of us personally as well and and it’s a balance yeah and one reason I bring that up and maybe this will bring this topic to a close uh if you can’t tell I have like a little bit of a passion for this so This the decriminalization element or what I perceived to be the decriminalization element of legal ization and in many ways I feel like there are shortcomings like it’s not just Illinois there are other states where you know you you can’t grow at home Illinois you can grow at home if you have a medical card uh but there are many states where where you can’t and so for all those reasons like that’s why I bring up some of these topics especially you know it’s I started about I I talk about limited licensing and stuff but it relates to you know these continued ways in which cannabis is criminalized just to give you an example that I’m sure uh you’re all too familiar with like the idea of possession limits like I could go to Walmart right now and like I’m sure actually a lot of people are doing it about right now because Super Bowl Sunday is coming up and they’re packing up Beering alcohol and like yeah buying more than they’re gonna drink for their friends like you know what I mean and that’s what I’ve never understood about The Possession limit idea um especially when the answer to exceeding that possession limit is still criminalization it’s like what who are we protecting with these things yeah no that yeah I mean they’re common sensical things that still need to be challenged and challenged heavily and they and I yeah I do agree with you that’s that makes no sense yeah well said well said well um Chris or sorry Ryan uh what’s your last name Ryan Crandle crle that’s why I had in my I was like why do I have that in my hand um um yeah uh any other bases are you guys so is Illinois the most recent State you’ve gotten into yeah so we just opened a dispensary in tiffan Ohio we just open a retail store in Casey Illinois and then we just opened our processing facility in Illinois in Mount Vernon Illinois where we also have a dispensary yeah yeah oh and I I lost myself in that thought uh um I was going to ask one of the things I don’t feel like I’ve seen and I try to ask this question because I have a passion for decriminalization and these advocacy efforts um and I know you’re the cro um but I didn’t have as much time with the CEO and so I always try to ask people at these companies like do they have any plans to you know some people work with like last prisoner project and stuff like that um I was just curious do does miramed do that or um stuff like that you know yeah we just actually formed an alliance with last prisoner project and all of our delivery so we do delivery out of our well in any store that allows delivery we do delivery and uh we’re actually rounding up for last prisoner project at our delivery locations in Mass uh soon to be in Delaware um yeah so I mean I think we’ll be doing more and more of that um I think last prisoner is literally one of the first ones that we’re doing this year and just rolled it out in the month of January so we’ll be carrying that forward for 12 months with those guys guys um there’s another partnership we just started but I it’s escaping me um and it’s a it’s a National Association but I it’s not coming to mind right now but so we are we do have two initiatives uh one of which is the last prison project yeah do you guys do like a lot of lobbying you know like I’ll see people like I just interviewed Charlie backel for example I’ll see him at like the safe banking hearings and stuff like that like do people are your people uh at state level or federal level like kind of doing stuff like that I would say yes um yes yes I would say we we are planning to do more um you know we’ve been fairly light on the lobbying side historically as a company and I would say that we will strengthen that over time but that hasn’t been something we’ve been you know in the past certainly several years uh laser focused on I would say do more sure cool I always like to ask you know it seems like people like that those are the people that you’ll see last the stand you know test of time right you know because you got to be there to know like how to play by the rules as you say you gotta be there to hear the rules being draft and and as they’re formed right and being and being yeah so I I think um the good news is we’ve got several folks within our company that are very engaged at the state level with folks that are writing regulations in multiple States and um you know we are being heard and listened to and I do think we have good experiences uh to learn learn from and and there’s a lot to fix within the regulation uh you know in these different states and and any state that we’re active in we are very active working with the commission to improve regulation in real time so you know uh craww walk run we try and do you know one stick at a time right and it’s like you can’t you can’t do it all at once but we definitely try and do little pieces every day yeah and uh to close I just wanted to talk about just other Hot Topics that have been in the news lately more topical things um just two things actually um hemp and D dedu reschedule by the way that kind of got be the last topic that we’ll talk about which is reschedule dedu really came back up uh in the news this week based on some rumors so um but first of all like I said I was talking to Charlie Vel and I’ve been asking everybody in the Cannabis industry because it seems to directly impact it uh what their thoughts are on uh like hemp and lately I’ve been hearing people jump into the space I’m curious uh is mared in the space do they have any thoughts about the space you know well I mean from an innovation standpoint we’re using hemp derived cannabinoids in the majority of our products so we are participating um in the hemp derived Marketplace I would say we’re keeping all of our products today within uh regulated State systems um that we operate so everything that we talked about today is really where we’re focused you know there are companies out there um you know that are in the regulated markets and are starting go to go direct to Consumer I’m not going to name any of them but there are several um yeah I think I think they you know uh I don’t want to speak for their businesses but it seems as though those companies may be searching for other ways to get to revenue um and and and have and have decided that the risk risk profile associated with doing that is is at a level that they’re comfortable with I think um I’m not sure that we’re comfortable with it yet um RIS consumer model yeah I we’ve all read the farm bill um and I think there’s lawyers that have read the farm bill you know and you know to me it’s gray um so you know I think as a company we’ve we we’ve decided that you know we’re a cannabis company that’s going to participate in regulated markets and we feel as though the direct to Consumer hemp canabo products are unregulated at this point and likely to be regulated at some point and therefore you know we’ve stayed away yeah yeah I do think it’s kind of smart in the sense that like you say they not only is it a money-making move but I actually got inspired of this uh from an older interview that I saw by Charlie backel it wasn’t the one that I uh I I it conducted myself um but it was an older one and they were talking about farm bill at the time because you remember it started everybody thought it was CBD yeah remember the explosion of CBD and they were talking about rolling out like a CBD brand like and Walgreens and CVS and they were just talking about it I don’t know that they ever did it um but they were saying that that’s Coca-Cola was going to have CBD in all their all their drinks with the Aurora deal for a little bit too all that same time yeah true um and so the idea was though you get your brand out there on the shelf and you don’t have to pay 280e on it and all the other benefits that people are doing the thca stuff for nowadays um that is an interesting I will say that is an interesting aspect for it I get what you’re saying and I’ve heard the interesting aspect for me like that that I didn’t think about coal that that you know I have recently is you know a lot lot of um the state governing bodies for cannabis will say basically you can forfeit your license if you do anything that we don’t agree with so that’s that when that when that idea was posed to me I said oh oh it’s not just we put that new business at risk with doing something that may be deemed unregulated we’re putting our Core Business potentially at risk and or and the core licenses and at that point I said and and other uh you know that that’s that’s a bigger issue and a bigger risk for a company um and and that’s what companies have to decide for themselves so we haven’t decided to participate um in that market for those those reasons in my opinion yeah well uh interesting question on that before we move on and close with dedu reschedule um do you think there’s going to be a thca Super Bowl ad or something like that I would hope thinking about it man you know what I mean like yeah you know I was blown away I I uh I listened to Rogan yeah I listen to this podcast every now and then along with others but um it was probably like five months ago I started to hear cbdmd um commercials for THC gummies right direct Delta 9 THC direct to Consumer um and I was blown away and like I I went around the office here showing people the cbdmd website and like you know started a real conversation within our walls you know here’s this public company and they’ve decided to go direct to Consumer and advertise on a on a very large platform on Rogan’s podcast that they are going direct to Consumer you know um there’s some other brands that have done it as well so and they haven’t been clobbered yet now I don’t think they’re I don’t think they’re raking it in either I’m not sure why um but you know it’s interesting that it’s been hanging out there for this long and that it’s allowed to go on for this long but similar to the rumors that you said you heard around rescheduling descheduling I’ve heard the same and and even more so recently in the last couple weeks uh I’ve also heard that you know this loophole around uh hemp based cannabinoids could get closed as well as a result of maybe reschedule Des I haven’t heard the two linked I’ve just heard both kind of pieces of chatter uh more so over the last couple months than I have over the last eight months for instance you know interesting yeah but certainly schedule reschedule I’ve heard louder than than that crowd but I have heard that crowd several times last couple weeks so I’d be interested to see whether or not that’s something that’s gonna happen as well yeah I won’t play the ad because I’m sure it doesn’t it wouldn’t be great on the podcast but also it would get the podcast taken down but I get blasted by these ads on YouTube all the time and I don’t want to give them free advertising so but it’s just hilarious how blatantly obtuse they advertise it they’re like like in this one scenario a cop he he literally he’s like I bought this offline is this illegal and then he’s like I don’t know let’s call Uncle Bob and they call Uncle Bob and he’s like in his police uniform and he’s like yeah it’s legal it’s thca I’m eating some gummies right now and it’s like that’s but that’s not that can’t the cops can’t eat gum like I don’t know it’s just it’s funny because it is the real thing as you say and as even Charlie said they’re directly identical products um the police and Fir FR and don’t quote me on this but I I heard that police and firefighters unions it might just be firefighters up here are working to get cannabis removed from the testing cannabis friendly uh relationships with firefighters and police unions are being discussed up here if anybody needs it it’s those two groups because they go through a lot you know so they need some ability to reprieve um everybody should have access absolutely absolutely it’s legal why not so um anyways to close uh any thoughts on uh re I mean so let’s just background real quick um there was a rumor I don’t even remember who it was but it was a pretty reliable source um they said that you know there could be some big news this week I will also add though that marijuana moment produced a report shortly thereafter saying that they were told by a Biden Administration official that it’s been waved off for the this week which makes it sound like that it something was going to happen um I I want to make sure I get that report right but just at a face value I wanted to give some background on why we’re talking about this in general but I’m I’m just curious at face value um what your thoughts are on rescheduling um cannabis which does actually seem what is going to happen I’ve not heard any talk about descheduling um specifically that’s just a wish list thing for me and a lot of other Advocates but let’s start with re uh rescheduling and what your thoughts are maybe on that possibility since it seems like it’s going to happen yeah I mean I I think we’re all very excited by the OPP by the by the possibility of it happening I think we’re a little bit guessing as to you know rescheduled okay but rescheduled to what and there have bit rumors right so um but I think the details of what it gets rescheduled to will dictate you know uh the rules of the road going forward and what that looks like like um but I think um you know rescheduling should help with you know it being considered federally illegal and potentially impact 280e um you know um I don’t know whether they yeah I I think it’s it a lot of things could happen I think I think cannabis companies should appreciate overnight they should become more valuable overnight as as that as that moniker is removed and then you know what new regulations now apply I think that’s part of what people people were thinking about all the positive impact and not to say it’s a negative impact but what I would look I would phrase it as what are some of the new challenges that cannabis has to deal with you know what are some of the new regulations one of the some of the new things that we have to look at and pay attention to so I think it’s there’s going to be a benefit side and then there’ll be a side of us you know the industry learning you know how to best approach a rescheduled environment yeah and I want to bounce off of that but just real quick I wanted to correct myself uh slightly the report that marijuana moment uh released was Biden Administration official disputes rumor of imminent marijuana scheduling decision and amid heightened speculation and they didn’t wave it off until next week as I said they waved it off entirely at least uh waved off the speculation so I just wanted to um make that a little bit more clear check out this report I’ll try to throw it in the podcast description but I wanted to make sure I didn’t mislead any people because I know there’s a lot of excitement around this topic and back to your topics on or your thoughts on uh rescheduling um what what do you think maybe some of the things because I’m curious I’ve been trying to calm people down actually about rescheduling because people are some of the Advocates are afraid of rescheduling that I talk to and I always say it’s a lame plug for my show but I always say hey the Cole memo we basically operating and uh we’re not taking the Controlled Substances Act into effect at all so these that’s how these State markets are running um so calm down it’s going to be okay I don’t think they’re going to go away as long as the coal memo is a thing um or the Garland memo as it may be updated um but thoughts yeah I think you know we um I don’t have you heard any bad things like for you is it operator I guess I’m asking um um no my I think you know we don’t we don’t like to guess as a company so I would say you know for me personally looking at it I say yeah I get I get worried um about the government the government processes right so I mean we are going to go into if it does get you know talked about as a controlled substance does it get closer to you know FDA enforcement and and some of the regulation around those products and how far does it go does it go down a pharmaceutical path you know does it go down more of a conventional cpg path I think those are all to be determined and and you know as you stated before it’s like it’s better to be involved in the creation of the regulation well I think right now that regulation is being created behind closed doors right or at least being discussed so it’d be interesting to understand what route they’re rescheduling is really going to ultimately send cannabis down is it going to bifurcate and some goes farmer some goes cpg you know I don’t you know I think we’re all guessing I think you know depending on who you are you have your own guess of what that’s going to be but I certainly think it’s going to change and I do certainly think that Pharma and cpg are are sitting at the table looking at how they can you know work with the regulation to manipulate a portion of this Market becoming their Market gotcha well uh Ryan I just want to thank you so much for being generous with your time and uh chatting all things cannabis with me today I’d love to do this again sometime if you’d be up for it I’m sure that there will be a lot of exciting things coming for you in the future as you expand in Illinois and other states so did you have fun today I did Cole thank you very much for having me man and uh I just wanted to add I you are Barack Obama’s favorite podcast no no that was a satirical post uh but I have gotten a few people uh it made me I knew you had to that was pretty good though I lik that pretty good thank you for uh I’ll have to feature that at the end of the podcast or sometime soon I made this satirical post because Barack Obama every year makes his list of favorite content and so I made this thing that this speech and it it was a remarkable I I I mean I’m proud of how I just threw it together it looks real um good you had double take it but it was pretty good I think what thr the reason I I put it on the nose he’s like got his thumbs up I I put that on to like let people know that it was indeed fake try to make it a little bit more like on the nose that it was fake but a lot of people still was they were like emailing me like congratulations and all the stuff and I was like thank you like it almost broke my heart that like because people were so excited for me you know to like bring him down yeah dude you need to do like you need to like every couple weeks just do a different famous person yes yes that would be perfect that would be perfect than for yeah absolutely folks I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did we’ll see you on the next episode of the Cole mimo take care