The Cole Memo

In this episode, I am joined by arguably one of the most famous sex workers that currently works in Nevada’s legal sex industry. Her stage name, Alice Little.

Bio: Little gained attention in 2017 after she wrote an article for Refinery 29 entitled “A Week as a Legal Sex Worker in Mound House, NV, on a $267,000 Salary.” She is a founding member of Hookers for Healthcare and was a member of the Nevada Brothel Association. She is an activist for Sex workers’ rights; she has fought to counteract legislation to have sex work criminalized, such as by FOSTA-SESTA, and to keep the brothels of Nevada from closing down by 2018’s proposed law Lyon County Question 1. 

• Watch the episode on Youtube here
• Stream the episode on Soundcloud here
• Stream the episode on Spotify here
• Stream the episode on Apple Podcast here

Links mentioned during show

• Alice Little’s Website: TheAliceLittle.com
• Full series at TheColeMemo.com/Sex

The auto-generated transcript is below.

welcome to the 12th episode of my series exploring licensed prostitution in America this Series has a specific focus on the legal system that exists within Nevada which allows sex workers and brothel to be licensed at a county level Nevada stands as the only state in the United States with such a framework in this episode I have the privilege of speaking to who I think might just be one of the most famous licensed and legal sex workers in the United States Alice little you’re listening to the Cole memo I’m your host Cole Preston each episode is available in audio video and transcript formats to access your preferred format simply check the episode description you’re listening to you’ll find a link within that description that will direct you to my website where you can view the transcript and discover the platform offering this episode in audio or video if you’re having trouble locating the episode description on your chosen platform take note of the episode number and visit the memo.com there you can easily locate the corresponding episode and access the audio video and transcripts Additionally you might find any links to any references that we make during the episode allowing you to further explore the topics that were discussed if you’re not tuning in Via patreon it’s worth noting that you’re hearing this episode after our loyal patrons if you’d like to become a patron and support our show visit the thecolememo.com/patreon once again that’s thecolememo.com/patreon it’s a fantastic way to contribute to my content and it only costs $3 a month however one of the most valuable ways to support the show is entirely free simply subscribe to or follow my show leave a positive review from wherever you’re listening from Mark this episode as a favorite give it a thumbs up leave a comment or post a review your engagement and support means the world to me today is December 25th 2023 and it looks like that I originally recorded this conversation with Alice little sometime in September of 2023 enjoy the [Music] episode folks I’m joined by Alice little Alice please introduce yourself to my audience hello hello my name is Alice little I am a legal sex worker sex educator and intimacy expert yep and for all those reasons she fits right in here uh so um thank you for your time today um I think uh and I hope this comes off as a compliment I think you’re one of the most famous uh you know sex workers and uh sex Educators uh that I’ve ever set down with so well thank you thank you I really appreciate it yeah so um yeah for folks that maybe didn’t understand that sex work is legal and well frankly there are multiple multiple forms of sex work as we’ve talked about on the show but in case people miss that can you uh fill in the dots for our listeners yes the sex work itself is kind of an umbrella term that describes lots of different professions that all fall within different offices I happen to be a legal fullservice sex worker through the Nevada brothel system here within the United States we actually have legal brothels however they are limited to specific counties only within the state of Nevada these brel have County bycount legislation rather than Statewide legislation and so the rules at each individual location often times are different as a reflection of the different County legislations and laws and uh before uh one of the things I want to cook up uh for you because one of our the point of this series talking to uh sex workers and the uh not only sex workers but we’ve spoken to people that are managers at brothel and everything else um owners we recently SP spoke to Bella um so folks check that out the whole point is that we’re trying to say that sex work should be legal and so one of the questions I’ll ask you at the end is like if we were to copy and paste into other states what were some things what are some things you might or we might consider sorry uh stumbling on my question there so that’s what we’ll work up to but I guess I wanted to before we close close with that um because that’s hopefully the future right um before we before we get to that I guess I wanted to ask um how long have you been in the sex industry uh legal sex industry in Nevada well I first started working within the Nevada brel back in 2015 prior to that however I was actually involved in the intimacy industry as a BDSM and sex educator I was traveling around to different events on the weekends and and educating people on how to have safe thre sums how to negotiate your first Kink experience here’s what vloggers are and how not to hurt yourself with them all sorts of different things gotcha and like when did when did this start for you when did you get into the like again as I say or as you said the sex industry is very broad you know um but yeah generally speaking like when did you start this profession I would say probably started at the age of 18 I obtained a job working at the front desk of a private BDSM dungeon in New York City my college roommates had parents that owned the dungeon so I kind of bullied them and elbowed them into hooking me up with the job and eventually managed to gain a world class education through also being in charge of setting up their educational structure and scheduling all the classes which meant I then then got to attend all the different classes eventually I became an educator myself and started to travel around locally and nationally and eventually I started to present internationally as well very cool very cool so when did you get into um Nevada’s sex industry and if I could ask also how how to cat actually started because of my sex education background it was at an event where a fellow educator shared with me her experience at one of Nevada brothel and it really intrigued me I’d remember watching this TV show the HBO cat house series back when I was younger and well I pull it up on my phone I look it up online and lo and behold that’s the place so I decided to apply and started my journey and never looked back ever since awesome awesome and where where did you start if if I could ask so I started up north there are dozens upon dozens of different ranches the easiest way to explain it is that there is a family of properties known as the Bunny Ranch properties which at one time was up to seven different brel that were owned by Dennis Hoff and I started at one of his locations and worked at one of his locations all the way through the pandemic before making a switch to a Southern location the historic chicken ranch brothel which is where I work today oh cool cool the chicken ranch yeah definitely historic um we recently uh sat down and watched the chicken ranch documentary which was really crazy to see I don’t know if you’ve seen it yes what a treat and it truly is a taste of History the industry is almost nothing like that anymore however I love reflecting back on where we came from it’s so beautiful to me that we’ve encapsulated that little Slice of Life as to what things were like at one point in time yeah absolutely absolutely that’s when that’s when it all started back in what is it the 80s you know the chicken ranch brothel actually started all the way before that back in lrange Texas I want to say it was back in like the 50s or 60s back when they were broel all across America and it was one of the final brel until eventually it was close yeah so you were you were at uh the Hof brothel for quite a while um then you uh segwayed to the chicken ranch was there any like particular reason that you segwayed to the chicken ranch or well this little thing happened in March of 2020 that kind of had a little big impact upon the entire world and in particularly those of us that work within the intimacy industry of course I’m talking about the pandemic which unfortunately shuttered the entirety of the Nevada brothel industry for the first and only time in history we are open 247 365 and we don’t close we are open Period end of sentence so this is the first time that the entire industry had ever been shuttered so this was incredibly shocking and during that time many ladies such as myself told it took a look at our lives and how we wanted to do things moving forward and I ended up getting involved in content creation through only fans and managed to pick up a nice little following through that platform which allowed me to purchase a farm in Colorado now it makes more sense for me to travel to work work a limited tour and then return home rather than living near my place of work and being available 247 that just doesn’t make any sense for me at this point in my career all of my guests make appointments with me anyway so I don’t need to be available on Demand anymore yeah and forgive me you know most uh all of the workers I spoke with I made sure to give them time at the front to say where they could find them online you’re once again famous enough I feel like people can just search your name but did you want to plug your website or anything absolutely my website is the Alice little.com perfect perfect cool so again my apologies for waiting uh later into the show to do that but I’ll put it in the show intro so well thank you absolutely absolutely so you said you and you know I saw you know just did a little bit of research and I’m not completely plugged into the Nevada scene but I saw that you actually helped to lead the charge to kind of reopen the brothels am I correct in remembering that because it was a few weeks ago that I looked this stuff up I did I sued the governor of Nevada and I was the only one brave enough to do so whoa can you tell us a little bit about that of course so at this point in time we are well into 2021 vaccine round number one is already come out it’s already been out its old news in Nevada the casinos are open people are drinking eating and smoking massless however Nevada has one industry that was still shuttered my industry the Nevada brool and I thought that was a load of nonsense so I decided to roll up my sleeves and do something about it nice and did it did it go your way or did he just ultimately like lift it or how would you characterize the change did you feel like you had an effect you know this is where things get very nuanced and interesting when it comes to brothel legislation had any brothel owner stepped up to the plate and joined the lawsuit I likely would have been incredibly successful in my Pursuit however Nevada broel workers have a license that is under the Nevada broel license so we have a work card to work at a specific location and so essentially the justification was is that as a worker I didn’t have legal standing whatever the precedent is to say that I am being hurt in some way because I don’t physically actually own a brothel interesting why do you think that it brothel owners wouldn’t have joined you money and finances Frankly Speaking um and again this is where things get very interesting from my understanding many of the PPP loans that were granted had since been rescinded however many brols qualified for PPP and Small Business Association Small Business Association loans yeah based off of other llc’s and Es Corps that they had such as an accounting office a restaurant a whatever company that may be affiliated with the ranch but not the sex industry directly they were able to get money so they weren’t necessarily worried about reopening the broel in any sort of Hur or hustle because they were doing okay whereas us the individual workers we received no such protections we were not not eligible for SBA Loans we were not eligible for paycheck Protection Program we didn’t receive really much of any assistance from the government at all because we are independent contractors not employees and so we simply lost our incomes overnight literally just like that gotcha wow yeah that’s that’s crazy and I it just seems crazy yeah that that other brothel owners wouldn’t wouldn’t join you especially if it would have helped the standing of your case but honestly my experience so far has been that they just seem to be a a nervous bunch a private Bunch like Bella was the only one I could really get to come on the show with me and just talk it’s understandable you figure as a brothel owner they have a tremendous weight and responsibility on their shoulders which is the weight of the brothel license if they mess up and they lose that that license they don’t just lose their money now they have cost all of their employees all of those ladies their workplace and the opportunity to be financially successful so they need to think about things such as do I really want to cause contention with the governor of Nevada when I’m not sure if he’s going to be up for reelection do I really want to like take that man on directly or or Frankly Speaking as someone who does not own broel what is Steve cisac going to do to me directly I mean it’s not like he’s going to turn around and come against my brothel I don’t own one like it’s me just little little me hanging out doing my spicy David and Goliath thing I guess yeah yeah but I’m glad I did it though it Frankly Speaking called a lot of necessary attention to the plight that sex workers were facing thankfully not long after the lawsuit was concluded we did receive a date for the reopening of the brothel though it sure would have been great to receive that a little bit sooner yeah yeah I’m curious were were there kind of ridiculous like uh guidelines to coming back like I did see something about like you did require temperature so I’m not saying that’s ridiculous but were there’s like silly things cuz there was there were some silly things you remember like when you went to the and they were like you have to have your mask on when you walk to the table but when you sit down you can take it off because the virus it’ll be like all sorts of ridiculous nonsense and silly things like you know if you do the macarina and the Hokey pokei and turn yourself around you’re GNA be a okay I mean I am here for vaccinations I am here for safety reality is at a certain point we had vaccinations we had a pretty good understanding of what was going on on we understood who is at risk what mitigations needed to be assumed for example everybody within the brothel industry returning to work after the pandemic ended up being vaccinated that was something that everybody agreed upon because we all shared common risk like Hey we’re all in this ship together we all share space we all literally are in this house together we need to be collaborative and Cooperative here let’s work together to make this work and everybody was much so on board though of course as all things are with the government they’re like give us a little thing about how you’re going to reopen and what that looks like and it’s like goodness I don’t even think you guys know how you’re going to reopen but one thing I know for sure is that if there are people drinking and smoking in the casinos there are certainly people having sex in the hotel rooms of those casinos right why in the world are you keeping the legal brothel industry closed why yeah and and you know on a slightly different topic you know what kind of got me interested in uh legal sex work is the parallels I see between the legalization of cannabis and the legalization of of sex work and I think they both come from a good place right where it’s like you can’t you shouldn’t regulate behavior that doesn’t that that doesn’t hurt anybody right it’s my choice as an American uh that that’s what I thought this country was all about this Freedom espousing country right and so um that’s what got me fascinated in this and one of the similarities I feel that you have to face so I’ve had people on my show that are prohibitionists they do this group they’re called smart uh smart approaches to marijuana and they’re like a really really well-known group if you look them up and they’re at they’re in Washington DC every day um and they think marijuana should be illegal I recently uh and obviously I disagree right but I I speak with these people and um I I like to debate these people and I bring this up because a lot of times I don’t feel like those people are coming from a place where they’re arguing in good faith like I feel like they’re just kind of yes making [ __ ] up to try to like make what make their point instead of like acknowledging the the actual reality of where it is you know I feel that in my heart and soul back in in 2018 there was a small religious minority that wanted to criminalize Nevada brel in Lion County and Ice bear headed the lion County Freedom Campaign to defend the Nevada brothels and came up against a few individuals who wanted to literally in a town hall debate me as to the pros and cons of broal and their defense was this here Bible which religion is great and all and I’m here for it but like you know you do you you do me you practice your faith I’m going to do the Bible’s a bad book to hold up to justify the illegality of prostitution because the Bible encourages like you know in some texts it encour like the stories of a man giving up his daughter to a village you know like uh there a lot there’s a lot of St but um that’s actually why I brought it up is that’s where was working to you read my mind I was going to ask you about your experience and I just wanted to commend you because I feel like you’re you’re like a a warrior in that realm where like I’ve got a lot of I’m a fan of a lot of people in the Cannabis realm but if I were to name like an advocate in the sex work realm I’d be like Alice little is on the list you know so thing yeah so I wanted to talk to you about that experience what was that like and I’m sure that it hasn’t gone away was that the latest one you said and what was it 2018 or 2019 yeah so it it never stops there are always groups working against intimate pleasure between consensual adults whether that is the censorship of pornography the criminalization of sex work the Eraser of boobs from the internet in women’s bodies being censored whatever it so may be we see contention against intimacy and intimate relationships at every single Twist and Turn which is ironic and hypocritical when you then turn around and see the things that are permissible when it comes to celebrity culture but any which way I I strongly strongly strongly feel that there needs to be more conversation where we are willing to confront anti-sex work anti- intimacy individuals and really be willing to question their intentions of their debates that is something that I personally have tried to do whenever I come across someone who was against this I I literally tried to question call into a question like why is that your opinion fantastic well why does your moral opinion have weight on what I do with my body and what I do professionally how would you feel if say somebody who is a vegan declared that because of their ethical concerns around meat in this country therefore nobody can have a a McDonald’s hamburger or any hamburger ever again I mean this country would be in like in an uproar they would lose their minds if somebody tried to take away their they like hamburgers and hot dogs dogs like we can’t we can’t have that but we do have states that are taking away people’s pornography multiple States now have pornhub.com blocked as a consequence of various legislation that is desined under the guise of protecting citizens and miners that unfortunately truly exist to further minimize access to adult content and minimizes the presence and visibility of sex workers online yeah and it’s all based on this assumption that like women aren’t able to make their own decision I feel like like none of the like you know what I mean it see it seems like it’s based on this assumption that all of these women were like swindled into this almost like absolutely an empowered woman choosing to do something with her body that they feel too inhibited to do how dare how dare she we can’t have that happen women being financially successful in an industry where women are uniquely more successful than men oh I don’t know how we feel about that as a society it’s very interesting when we talk about sex work and the bad brel and the financials of it the reality is the highest paid individuals within the industry aren’t broel owners it’s probably like some of the women because sure broel owners get 50% of everyone’s everything and then they have to pay taxes on all that and then they have to pay for the broel license and all their employees and their lights and I mean gosh some women individually are able to earn as much as a small rural barel an entire location individually on their own to give you an idea of the sheer range of income possibilities that exist within just the Nevada brothel system and truly within sex work as well there is absolutely survival sex work but let’s not for like one second pretend that there are not people that are truly thriving within sex work and making themselves very successful careers yeah there’s survival sex work there’s also just like survival work like does it like I guess we’re choosing like it’s interesting we’re ascribing moral values to the choice and how we’re going to be exploited and I’m not saying sex work is exploitive I’m just saying all work is exploitive all labor all labor under capitalism is really exploitative at the end of the day we don’t really have an ideal system of Labor and Equitable exchange of how we barter trade and sell goods and services that is an unfortunate reality of capitalism and America and not a single one of us individually is going to magically change that system and criminalizing sex work certainly is not going to change that system in any sort of way other than causing direct harm to sex workers yeah absolutely well said and you know just uh to underscore a point that you made a moment ago I was joined by um uh an individual that said you know that that taught me that you know historically actually sex sex workers have always been to trans has have always been able to transcend their class now hear me out what I mean by that is that women back in the day didn’t have all of the same rights as we had like the right to vote for example you know the right to maybe even learn how to do certain things I don’t know but um like sex workers were able to transcend that like they were ahead of their time they knew how to read you know like things like that um which I I yeah learned yeah oh yeah absolutely like the madams in some of the Wild West towns were some of the most influential individuals within those towns not to mention some of the most affluent as well yeah and I guess to round out my point it it hearkens back to a point you were making where it’s like that’s maybe why some people are trying like pull you down like that’s what was happen back happening back then they’re like whoa whoa whoa we can’t have somebody doing like a woman doing that like pull like bring her down to her level type of thing right morality and the idea of in someone’s Place plays a huge part of sex work the idea of judgment and being able to look down upon and unfortunately even within sex work sometimes there’s this kind of like built-in horror Ary where people have this misconception that some types of sex work are better than other types of sex work and try to create this kind of internalized pyramid of what’s the best sex work versus what’s the worst sex work and it’s an umbrella it doesn’t work like that it it’s like more of a vend diagram with lots of overlap because most of us do a lot of things like I do only fans and then I’m also at the ranches and then I also do custom cont content and then I also do video experiences for people I mean it it just it is endless yeah I’m curious can you speak on some of the workers that we spoke to that have left uh you know let’s just say some of the places that you’ve mentioned they they’ve mentioned they’ve left because of like uh culture issues did you experience anything like that you know yeah the culture of a location is in incredibly important when it comes to where someone is able to work longterm a harmonious peaceful work environment that’s collaborative not Cooperative certainly I feel is the correct solution I I feel that communication is best done through words rather than screaming at people and there are better ways to communicate that don’t involve swearing people perhaps yeah well and I was even told and Alice forgive me I was even told like you know something that happened to you somebody told me off the Record that somebody like poured coffee on your laptop or something like that oh yeah yeah I was on a booking and then somebody said attached my laptop oh yeah I mean just the wildest Things the most Wild Thing and you’re you’re kind of like I’m not trying to to like Gass you up or anything but you are an exception in many ways and I’m just curious one of the things we that we heard about is sabotage of people that do a really well like you um have you have you experienced that in like multiple levels or or multiple ways like one of the craziest ways I heard about was somebody getting nare put in their shampoo and I was like Jesus Christ that sounds like a college dorm trick except horrible you know yep um for myself it’s all about Focus like am I going to focus on negativity or positivity and Frankly Speaking I’m just too busy to worry about what other people are saying or doing or thinking I’m not focused on what anybody else is doing I’m doing my own thing like if anything the more negativity that comes my way the more haters that come my way thank you for being a dedicated and loyal fan I appreciate your attention I mean yeah clearly you’ve liked and subscribed right and pay preferably right um throw throw yeah watch I mean if you hate me enjoy watching me I mean like it almost feels me I guess I don’t know like I guess I’m motivated by the idea that there’s all these people that hate the idea that somebody is a successful legal sex worker and has built a career out of this and is so enthusiastic and open to talking about it that they would like gather up Christian cyber terrorists and try to take down my website no this happened this really happened like somebody tried to DDOS my website through a Christian cyber terrorist organization it was really special like that told me I’m like oh they’re paying some let me be louder let me be even more ostentatious in that case like that’s crazy Alice that’s oh no it’s absolutely wild let me tell you back in 2018 18 there was a period of time in which I would have to have a friend pick me up from work or meet me in a random parking lot so I could get into her vehicle and then she could drive me home because there were people from the local church that were trying to follow me home they were so ridiculous they literally had the church bumper sticker on their vehicle and they would use the same like three or four vehicles in rotation they were not very clever that’s insane I wonder why wanted to find out where you live that seems that’s scary yeah stalking and harassment is a tremendous issue for sex workers particularly at the time I lived very close to where I was working for that to be exposed would have put me in a significant amount of danger there are certainly crazy people out there that would do harm to me or harm to my pets and I have no interest in that at one point I actually moved during all of this there was concerns around my uh safety and somebody stalking and harassing and trying to like use social engineering to figure out where I lived and it was really traumatic to be frank it was not a fun time yeah that’s I’m sorry you had to go through that that’s pretty crazy it was a interesting experience at the same time I certainly don’t regret it yeah so you um and I am not trying to get you to like talk [ __ ] about anybody I’m just honestly asking you you did not leave because of uh you didn’t leave like the what did you say the I’ve always heard it referred to as like the Hoff uh brothel or the Hoff estate you didn’t leave that because of like culture issues like I got to get the [ __ ] out of here um I mean they were already closed at the time so technically I was already gone and I oh true true yeah I mean so technically I was already on at the same time let’s just say that I It Was Written in the Stars and I very much so recall pausing and looking around and Gathering up all of my belongings despite the fact that we were only supposed to be there for like you know we’re closing for a week stop the curve remember that yeah LOL how funny so like I remember packing up all my stuff being like I’m just gonna get this all just in case I got a feeling yeah I got it I and I’m asking these questions because I feel like this is the only bad thing I’ve heard about the sex industry like this isn’t anything that I think should make it illegal culture is totally addressable I’m ask abely absolutely is and Frankly Speaking that’s where the conversation really comes into what happens next Where Do We Go From Here what is the ideal system what should legislation and structure look like for sex work should there be legislation around sex work is it beneficial to have legis ation there’s a lot of nuance that goes into this that is really really hotly debated and it’s really interesting yeah what what is your what what do you think on that subject like so here in America due to the way that our system of legislation is written and the way that banking functions under capitalism sex workers in my personal opinion benefit most from a combination of decriminalization and legalization we need decriminalization to protect the people that are most marginalized period end of sentence decriminalization has to come first we know that decriminalization works it allows us to find sex trafficking victims and get them helped it allows us to keep minors out of the industry by removing that Criminal Al penalty it also allows tax workers to be able to reach out to police for assistance if they’re being violated rather than being arrested with a crime simply for selling intimacy that makes no sense at all whatsoever so we need to decriminalize this industry and then we need to talk about legalization structures and what that ideally looks like legalization needs to serve the industry and what is the industry of sex workers primarily not exclusively but primarily cisgender females that is the overwhelming majority of people that work within the brothel or not within the brothel industry within the sex work industry as a whole like nationally sure there’s some men yes there’s absolutely trans people the majority are CIS women that we are talking about here so we need legislation that is going to specifically serve the population of sex workers in America and is designed around their specific needs wants and desires so by this I mean need we need safety we need to be able to bank we need to have that protection right now sex workers even legal sex workers like myself are at risk of having our banks closed because banking is a federal system and legislation is at a state level my bank account can be closed at any point in time and has been closed I pay my taxes well plenty I mean six figures in taxes some years and let me tell you it made no difference at all whatsoever they still closed my account that tells me that we need some sort of legislative protection we need something written to guarantee us access to financial system because that is the only way that we are able to build generational wealth to be able to get ourselves ahead you need access to banking That’s essential under capitalism we need need that and without some form of legalization it’s very very very tricky to get that you just taught me another parallel between the Cannabis industry and oh banking yeah banking like there’s a huge push for safe banking at the federal level for cannabis oh yeah it is unbelievable it is so incredibly challenging let me tell you I mean it is such such a challenge such a know that do you have to like be careful about who you bank with oh what I do everything strictly carefully and intentionally designed it is unbelievable the amount of stress and stigma that goes into the financial concerns of sex workers it’s ridiculous it’s probably one of our biggest liabilities right now as an industry is our financial liability in the sense that we do not have Security in terms of legislative banking protections yeah sorry my internet cut out I think in uh there for a second um but I I yeah that’s that’s insane like I said I did not realize there was another pair to the Cannabis industry well um curious what what else so what what else is there to that legalization topic because I’ve heard and if you even go to the Wikipedia page which I don’t have it pulled up right now but off the top of my head I can pull it up um like one of the criticisms of the Nevada sex Market is that it’s like this idea that and this is actually why I fell in love with the idea of not only legal cannabis but legal sex it’s this idea a that it’s like this liberal cool hippie movement that’s like acknowledging that humans can make this choice and I guess one of the criticisms of the Nevada sex Market is that it kind of puts this power differential between the owner and the sex worker and oh God yeah yeah can you can you speak on that because I feel like that’s the only thing that I’ve heard that is and again that’s not I still don’t think that’s an argument against it but it’s kind of accurate guess no it’s it’s very nuanced and complicated so let’s start by dialing it back and talking a little bit more about how brothel exist within Nevada like I mentioned earlier they only exist within very specific counties in those counties Dole out a specific number of licenses those licenses are all grandfather there’s no new licenses issued so if I want to open up a broel I can’t there is no new license available to me I have to obtain an existing brothel license from somebody else by buying their business an existing brothel location because the license is also tied to the location they’re married together so you need the license and the location in order to open up a business this results in there being no clear pathway for legal sex workers to ever become brothel owners unless I managed to save quite literally millions of dollars of liquid assets there’s really no clear Financial pathway for me to be able to then turn around and own a brothel it is so prohibitively expensive that there is this severe income differential between the brothel owners and of course the sex workers now like I said some sex workers absolutely are able to individually make as much as some small Ral brothel entirely on their own that is an exception not the rule we’re talking talking about the top 0.01% of the industry maybe three to five out of the several hundred individuals are making that kind of elite level of income and that’s not always consistent income over every week month year it varies it is a very highly varied industry whereas broel ownership of course offers more stability in the sense that you have multiple workers all individually working and making money so you have a little bit more of like a differential whereas it’s me myself and I I am how I make money it isn’t like me and several clones of me all working appointments at the same time whereas the brothel owner doesn’t even have to necessarily be present at the brothel to be making money it’s passive income whereas for sex workers of course it’s active income so there’s of course lots of nuance differences and that’s not to say that all brothel owners are bad or that brothel owners in general are bad it’s just important to acknowledge the fact that there is that Financial Empower differential within play Within the system which isn’t surprising considering the fact that the industry itself was legislated in the 1970s and boy howdy was legislation ever so slightly skewed to support and favor men at that point in time right right as somebody described it it seems like the licenses are only meant to protect the the owner you know and not so much even the maybe even the employee or the like the sex worker themselves you know correct we are very much so left on our own both the employee and the sex worker are just kind of like we’re just there but the prop owner of course kind of is like protected I guess in that way yeah and we received uh two voice voicemails I wanted I felt like this was the perfect time to reference one of them I was going to play it but I can’t I can’t play I’m having trouble getting it to toggle and play but um one of the questions they had was like tips or tricks or tips or tricks I read the transcript and they were saying that they were considering getting into Nevada’s sex industry and one of the things I felt that was important to bring up at this point since we’re talking about power differential and things that that I think women should be uh or people getting into this industry should just be aware of um one of the things that I learned through this is first of all like all the clothes you can get people that are listening and considering getting into the industry you can write them off on your taxes correct right it or is that a DIY question sorry yes and I am not an accountant it is very important to have a differential between your work wardrobe and your personal wardrobe as my accountant put it if it is something that you were wearing non-professionally like a pair of sneakers you can’t write that off it really has to be like this is my work wardrobe this is my personal wardrobe to give you an idea my clothing is literally in separate closets like it is very much so like differential and divided and it is that way for a lot of things for example makeup you’re supposed to have your personal makeup and your professional makeup Nails you can write off press on nails but it can be challenging to write off like acrylic nails because they’re attached and you’re supposedly then receiving the benefit of having those Nails all the time even though you’re really doing it for work like it’s challenging to write off on your taxes you have to prove like no I got these and then I did a photo shoot see it matches my outfit these are specifically a work rated expense sort of thing how about this tip get an accountant oh my god get an accountant Jesus Christ you have no idea how challenging nuan and problematic it is because you are an independent contractor that means you are doing all of it on your own no one is holding anything for you and don’t screw it up or you’re going to be in a whole world of hurt yeah yeah and um you know on that on that end um one of the things you mentioned earlier was like the 50% of that’s of every earning but some some people that we spoke to like even kind of said you know you could almost consider it 75% because you got to pay room board obviously food too you know stuff like that room board food Transportation cost of toys leray the cost of doctoring we have a quarterly license that is $150 four times a year that we have to pay we have a business license we have taxes Insurance yeah we don’t have health insurance unless we pay for that ourselves which is of course extremely pricey on the private Market I mean it is unbelievable the amount of expenses that we spend it is a very very expensive industry to get into if you are financially struggling I don’t recommend blowing your last few dollars to get involved in this industry you need to come into this with a little bit of padding and savings because if this isn’t for you you want to be able to turn around and walk away and not have to like earn your plane ticket home don’t put yourself in that situation don’t don’t do that right and thank you for addressing that that was going to be my next question uh you know some PE some women have found that this is this is something where you know like I feel like the experience you had is ideal right you go you have a really good experience you make a good amount of money and you’re able to you know live off of that but some women we’ve heard and again this isn’t a KN it’s some people just don’t do well like I’ve had jobs that I don’t do well at right so it’s again I don’t think this is an argument against legalization but they’ve talked about how came here I was planning for my future and then all of a sudden I got stuck in what they describe as like this Vortex of debt because of Bor like they end up having to try to pay their themselves out and like you say buy their plane ticket home because these and maybe this is another tip that you can give these brothel are out in the middle of of nowhere so it’s not like you have like a huge traffic influx I mean middle and nowhere is really perspective it depends on the location I mean you could be an hour and a half from Vegas but I mean it’s a desert I mean it is a challenge you need to be financially responsible getting into this industry you are responsible for flying yourself there for dressing yourself for having your work supplies you’re responsible for answering your emails for marketing yourself you need to have a laptop you need to be able to answer your emails it really helps to have social media presence pictures are everything in this industry you need to be able to afford nice pictures or already have gone out of your way to have nice photos taken of yourself I I mean it’s a tremendous tremendous investment yeah and that’s what I was getting at thank you thank you what I was getting at you know and you’re true you’re right because I did visit the Bunny Ranch and it is near I thought this was funny I got a picture a really cool picture it’s near a dispensary a gun shop and then there’s three other brothel and then you can see the Bunny Ranch in the background so it’s it’s not in the middle of nowhere but I guess what I’m saying is is that it’s not like it’s in Vegas it’s definitely not in Vegas right that’s kind of part of the law it is not legal in Vegas there are no or Reno right or Reno correct or Reno no yeah so so they are in rural areas like you say so so I guess what the like I say where I was coming from is yeah you really got to Market yourself you got to get people to come in the door because it’s it’s just maybe not always high volume you know it’s true people think they’re going to just suddenly start working and all of a sudden they show up and money just gets handed to them and it just it’s not like that at all maybe the lucky girl every once in a while literally walks in and makes a ton of money just magically luckily but like most of the time it’s hard work dedication you’re building a clientele over a period of time you have to think about the implications of being a legal sex worker are you putting your name or I should say are you putting your face on the internet with a fake name and are people are then going to be like wait hold on I know her real name I’m GNA go online and expose her to her family or something are you at risk of something like that can you really have your Fai out in this industry is that a risk you’re able and willing to take because something like that I mean it’s a it’s a risk it’s really important and that’s not just Nevada brel it’s any form of sex work you really really really really need to consider before you get involved with it in any way shape form or fashion do you worry about that at all like your family I mean I feel like your family’s got to know at this point oh God everybody knows everybody knows random strangers are like oh my God are you Al little I’m like sh maybe I’m Batman I got my my sunglasses on I’m just like she should just be like who’s Alice little but um oh my God right you should just do that about her um but uh do do you worry about people like I’m assuming Alice little is not your real name do you still worry about it is a stage name Frankly Speaking I am not worried about it in the slightest bit um at all whatsoever where I am I have an extraordinary amount of security and really hope nobody’s ever full enough to test my home it would be really bad for them what do you think that the future of and I want to be mindful of your time are you good on time as we wrap up we good to go cool all right um I’ve just got like a few more questions for you off the top of my head um what do you what do you think the future of and I know that this can change day by day and it’s such a big question but um we were talking about legalization and I agree decriminalization is first and foremost that’s another pair parallel to cannabis I think that comes before legalization in many instances like you say first and foremost it needs to not people need to not go to jail for making the choice to engage in these activities right and then let’s talk about legalization okay where where you can legally procure what do you think what yeah I feel like I kind of Spun us off into some specific questions and tips and stuff but what do you think ideally is uh the way to go I mean I want to start it off maybe agree or disagree do you think like kind of open market on licensing there shouldn’t be the why the [ __ ] are there limitations on Licensing in uh Nevada right that seems silly it’s like you have to buy it at the same property it seems silly and at the same time we don’t want to brothel everywhere in the same way that we don’t necessarily want a cannabis dispensary everywhere it makes sense that there’s certain limitations on where we want these things located that makes perfect sense to me not that they should be shuttered away to the outskirts of town and a hidden secret red light district and all the way Beyond the Edge of to like that’s silly instead of for uh sorry to cut you off instead of so alcohol and cannabis it’s usually 1500 feet what about for brothels it’s like 6,900 feet from a school like that like it yeah absolutely but yeah I I feel like we can have some reasonable limitations also I feel like the ideal model is akin to that of New Zealand where we have decriminalization and legalization with both broal small brothel in the form of Co-op groups and true independent work where an individual has their own license and truly just works by themselves it gives workers the full Gambit of options for them to choose how they want to work where they want to work and who they want to work with or for which is the most ethical way of doing things is having a market that has lots of options freedom of choice of course benefits the worker not so much broal owners at the same time I certainly believe that there is a place and a real value and need for places like brothel even in New Zealand where people could just work through Co-op are just work independently Rock Les still exist clearly there is a desire to have these safe havens where you can come luxuriate luxuriate have this Escape get away be fully immersed in this beautiful safe environment where you can have one or more beautiful ladies tending to your needs I mean what’s not to enjoy about that space there’s nothing wrong with brel there’s nothing bad about broccol it’s just give us more options too we want our cake we want to eat it too yeah and to get just a little granular would a good example be like and this is just another similarity I thought of between the Illinois cannabis industry and Nevada sex Market you’re licensed to work at one specific location so if you decide [ __ ] it [ __ ] this place I’m gonna go uh to the place across town or something hypothetically you couldn’t just do that that day like with with a hair license for example you could you could be cutting your hair in your own booth and then you could say [ __ ] it I’m going to work for Super Cuts or something like that big deal but with sex work it’s not like that is that correct no I would have to pay another license fee even within the same quarter to work at another Propel so maybe like a universal licensing do you think that’s a good proposal going forward is we consider yeah that’s certainly a good start um I also feel like quarterly licensing some counties are yearly my county is quarterly it’s excess iive it’s ridiculous I mean let’s just be real it’s another way to extort additional fees from sex workers by charging us 150 four times a year like just raise the cost of the license and just let us go in there once we don’t need to be fingerprinted four times a year it’s excessive no nothing no other industry not even gambling alcohol require that level of diligence and background certification and checks it’s entirely unnecessary does your government card say licensed prostitute thankfully it no longer does ours I want to say n’s uh cortisen on it oh cool cool if it if it’s possible Alice do you think you could Photoshop your pii out of uh your personally identifiable information and Prov if not it’s okay I’d rather not or could you or could you just somehow crop the legal cour what I can do is I can put a piece of paper over it just so the title see the legal yeah yeah reason being this is important for anybody listening any sex workers blurring pictures does not permanently blur pictures people can unblur images so that is not a safe way to protect your identity online so if you are wanting to not have your face on the internet blurring your face will not keep your face off the internet literally you need to go through the effort of hiding your face through pose through a hat through something a a blur is not good enough safety no safety no thank you thank you for sharing that this is what this is about this is what this is all about one of those obscured little interesting things to be aware of because you never know who’s a crazy person on the internet yeah your wealth and knowledge on these uh topics um what what are some other things that I guess maybe that we haven’t brought up with regard to legalization that that we might consider I feel like we’ve touched on a lot of points but uh we just got kind of granular on licensing any other thoughts on this I think the benefit to local counties and communities when it comes to having brols is really important to touch on in some communities particularly within rural Nevada up to 30% of their overall discretionary budget sometimes comes from the resulting fees from these Nevada brel they literally are supporting and carrying some of these small towns that otherwise would not be able to afford ameni such as new police cars ambulances to be able to invest in their schools whatever they’re using that discretionary budget for so I think that there’s a real benefit to having more brothel in America in the sense that it will generate tax dollars which are only going to turn around and benefit the local communities in fact I’d go so far as to suggest and propose something like an excise tax not an excessive amount just like a small percent amount that is charged to the person who is purchasing like one or two% that then automatically goes back to like that local community as like a community Improvement investment whatever fun I think that would be pretty cool yeah that’s that’s an interesting thought yeah and it’s it’s another parallel that reminds me of cannabis where they devote some towards like education or whatever the tax money you know yeah I mean it exists within Society it has existed within Society effect work is not new Nevada brothel were only legislated in the 1970s in reaction to brothel throughout America being shuttered elsewhere brel have been with us since the earliest days of America often times literally at the Forefront as we were expanding West brel and madams were such an inherent part of How the West Was Won and developed and the culture and how the miners were enticed out to these locations to obtain the minerals that paid for our roads and Railways that allowed us to become the nation that we are I mean it all goes back in history like it’s it’s nothing new and it’s so important that we really recognize and honor that history rather than stigmatize and shame something that clearly has been with us forever like it’s not called the world’s oldest profession for no reason yeah and you know what do you think about the idea of uh just in terms of talking about what an ideal model would model would be some people have felt and described that maybe they didn’t have um I don’t I guess with the proposal they suggested is like some sort of sex worker Bill of Rights and it’s this idea that I don’t know if they exist anymore but there were like lockdown brothel back in the day I’ve heard that they’re like not so much of a thing anymore but that they still maybe are oh okay not really so but can you describe what I just for folks have no idea what I’m just talking about can you describe that please yes in certain counties the legislation was written in a way that essentially caused a sex workers’s medical clearance to expire if she left the brothel premises for more than 24 hours essentially requiring the sex worker to remain on the brothel premises for the entire duration of her tour whether that be days two weeks because if she were to leave go home her clearance would then expire and she would have to pay the expense and then also have all of that time that she would be unable to work so situationally legislation caused brel to have policies that required the workers to remain on location ironically just before the entire nation went into lockdown the lockdown policies as they existed within let deflation were actually overturned in NY County and now the clearance remains for the full seven or up to 10 days if that worker is only working up to a 10day period if she is continuing to work the next what the next week she has to clear every seven days but like technicalities aside anyway it it’s every seven days essentially that we are required to be tested and not required to stay on the previs thank God because that was ridiculous and unnecessary yeah and I guess the other thing that maybe goes with that I don’t know maybe it doesn’t one of the things I’ve heard is just in the spirit of sex worker bill of wres like the idea of they felt they had to sleep pretty um have you heard of that um it depends on where you work again some locations have Shi some locations you could work an AM shift or a PM shift so if you’re working an overnight shift and I suppose if you want to go to sleep I guess then yeah you’re going to have to be some form of ready to work your ship it’s kind of like being a firefighter you know you you sleep on site and when the bell rings you get up right it’s a good analogy where I work essentially you are available 24/7 during the time that you were there on location if you choose to be all you need to do is say the magic words hi I’m going to sleep and taking myself off the floor I’ll see you when I wake up good night and that’s it congratulations you’re off the floor go to bed go get a full night’s sleep go take your makeup off take your heels off like chill sleep good night like you can certainly work and have the opportunity to make money all night long if you so choose but I mean you don’t have to sleep in your makeup plenty of girls show up to line up quite literally in some like cute little PJ thing and like some shoes that they just slipped into that they had sitting in the hallway yeah like it’s very much so subjective in my opinion to what your attitudes are regarding the experience in the sense that it is a work location you are there to make money you make money when people come in through the door most ladies are available for something called a lineup which means that a guest has walked into the ranch that does not have an appointment is not sure who they want to see and would like to see all the various ladies that are available to potentially choose a lady to then go on tour with and then book with so if a lady is not at lineup it significantly minimizes her ability to make money so it certainly behooves the lady to be within that space and attend the lineup now again every location is different where I am I work by appointment only I don’t like to do lineups so I don’t do lineups I don’t like to see random people I prefer people to email me first I much prefer to get a sense of who someone is and what kind of a connection they’re looking for because I don’t offer every single service contrary to popular belief sex workers say no and oftentimes we’ll say no for me who someone is is extremely important so I care about who I see I want to be treated with respect and kindness I want someone that is going to value and appreciate my time not treat me like an object and so when I’m communicating with somebody over email I’m able to get a sense of someone’s going to be a good fit for me so I don’t do lineups really anymore I could if I want to but I’m certainly not required to and the ranch has never pressured me into doing a lineup they’re just kind of let me be an independent contractor which is a good thing and that’s how it should be right and that’s kind of where I was asking my question from is that I feel that that and I think it’s it’s the the idea that I mean you are you know you’re kind of an exception in that like you know yeah you don’t I don’t feel like you have to do bookings and I think everybody can get to your status I don’t I’m not saying that that’s not possible I don’t know it’s one of those things where it’s nice to think that it’s possible for everyone but I also think it’s really important here that we acknowledge a few like societal stigmas and unfair biases and advantages like if you look at the brothel overall put all the brothel lineups every single lady from all of the ranches into one giant light up and then if you were to order that lady all the ladies in order of their skin tone it would be a mighty mighty white lineup oh a very very blond haired blueeyed white lineup it is important to note that because there absolutely is some highering disparity that happens within the industry as a whole where the workers within the industry do not truly represent the cross-section of sex workers in America that is a result of biased hiring practices a result of a biased Market I mean you certainly cannot control racism with than the purchasers themselves but we certainly should have more fair hiring practices within the brel so I I don’t necessarily think it’s safe to say that everybody can achieve that status because not everyone is truly given a fair opportunity some ladies aren’t even given the opportunity to walk through the door in the first place so there’s lots of barriers that need to be overcome for there to be the true potentiality for anyone to see this level of success yeah thank you for addressing that and I guess just to wrap up the topic of Bill of Rights any any other thoughts on that I guess the last thing I’ll add is somebody said like there’s no place you can call really like to file a complaint for example like there’s not like I don’t imagine there’s an HR department at the brothel you know what I mean so like what what do you think about depends on it would depend on the size of the broel as far as H goes I don’t mean to assume that was a generally generally speaking each location has a different manager and also I think it’s important to note here that it is a very large and diverse industry if one location is truly not working for you go work at a different house go go apply and work at a different house seriously I think it is so important that ladies in this industry do not have fear around changing profits until they find a location that is the best fit and the correct fit for them because every location is different everyone has different rules and management styles and preferences and clientele and price points and features I mean there’s such diversity with this within this industry that you really have to be willing to go and explore the industry and find what’s going to work best for your business model and which location is going to be the best fit for you like it would sure be nice that if every time we had a conflict with work that there was some like magic reporting agency that would make all of our work problems go away but I mean I don’t even think within like a traditional corporate hierarchy structure can you just like not like your manager and just magic away that conflict through HR like that’s true that’s not how that works unfortunately like if there are true dangerous violations you would report those to the sheriff that is who you you would reach out to if there is a true dangerous violation now if there’s an interpersonal conflict I mean like you got to be an adult at a certain point here this is not the 13th grade we are all adults here and this is the broel and we are here to make money not bicker with each other this isn’t competitive it’s complimentary and everybody is here with the same goal in mind which is that everybody wants to be as successful as they possibly can and not push others down to be successful you want to raise others up yeah absolutely absolutely and um yeah I guess that’s the one I think I’m glad you addressed that because some people have described like instead of there being um like a uh an abundance mindset that some women have a scarcity mindset and it’s important to have an abundance mindset because you can literally upsell people like it’s business you know like use the use your new friends to your advantage you know oh yeah yes you get so much further ahead by collaborating and working together always always always especially in this industry yeah well um so I I honestly wanted to wrap up uh with with uh some questions that admittedly I think are tough but I think that we can we can take them on I think that you know you being the FrontRunner uh like I I view you as like kind of the leader of sex sex work um legalization of sex work in America so I think that it’s easy to take this one on and I’ll even take a swing at it too but I’ve heard that some people attribute to your success is like you’re literally your name’s Alice little and some people have the appeal that like you’re kind of like you look younger and um I’d be happy to take a swing at that but would would you like to because you’re Alice little oh yeah yeah it’s a it’s a very frequent misconception I mean I’m 33 years old very proud about my age I’m 4 foot eight I am petite and the reality is is that if you take the time to listen to me for even just a moment my age is exceptionally clear there is no hearing and seeing me move and speak in real time and mistaking me for a child so some people like to use that as the oh Alice is successful because she’s young she’s tiny great I’m sorry I thought this supposed like stereotype is that sex workers were supposed to be successful because they’re blonde with big boobs and like long hair like voluptuous bodies and yet hello I’m 4 fo8 with red curly hair like I am here literally defying the stereotypes why in the RO are you now trying to find a different stereotype to Define my success as like just get over it like I’m successful because I work ridiculously damn hard at this industry that’s why yeah feel free to call me out if my response to that criticism is insensitive but here’s my response would you rather they [ __ ] Alice little or a kid I mean that’s the appeal I’m just saying if that is the appeal like since you’re small let’s just acknowledge that like you do you look young I wouldn’t have guessed you’re what’ you say 33 I wouldn’t have guessed that yeah no people never so I ask I am R hey carded and I see it is a compliment my trick by the way ladies sunscreen sunscreen and more sunscreen walk around with the little parasol and don’t be ashamed of being pale it’s cool you don’t need to get a tan totally cool I mean like the reality is I get my point is kind of edgy or whatever but do you get what I’m saying edgy but also it’s like I also don’t accept H play requests that’s one of the things oh okay that’s kind of what I was asking too I kind of was I was gonna like ask that I even offer anything like that somebody were to reach out to me and they’re like I want to do an AG play related fantasy whatever thing and if they want a specific age stated no I I’ll do like a sey school girl role playay all day every day like there’s a fine line where role playing we can do role play but I’m never going to do like specific underage play in any way shape or form that’s not a service that I offer are there ladies in the industry that offer that totally good for them that’s great they can consent to whatever they want to and there’s nothing wrong with those Services I just choose to not offer those Services because it’s not something that I’m interested in not because I can’t offer those services or not because I shouldn’t offer those Services I just don’t happen to offer those services so like I mean even if somebody wanted that thing from me it’s not like it’s something that they could get from me anyway so it’s like well I don’t see how that attributes to my success if I’m literally telling everyone who’s like oh can you pretend to be a minor I’m like no I won’t goodbye like that if anything that doesn’t help my success at all actually yeah funny I don’t know I just it’s really funny though because it’s always like the perception versus reality and it’s one of those things where when you are viewing somebody from the outside and you’re trying to make conclusions about something you’re focusing on the wrong aspect of things it it’s it’s like why are you trying to find a reason as to why I’m successful why can I not just be successful why do you need to explain away my success is it so wrong for me to be a successful sex worker and be making a bunch of money is there a problem for a sex worker to be making a lot of money because I really think that’s the underlying issue here for most people it’s not the fact that I look young the underlying issue here still comes back to the same thing is it really okay for this woman to be making so much money being a sex worker is this is this okay she looks so young can she really choose to do this heck yeah I can I am 33 years old absolutely I can choose to do this and there’s not a darn thing wrong with it yeah and thank you again for addressing that because I know that that’s that’s it’s disuss you but I had to ask it because it is one of the questions you know that that I’ve heard and um that that we even received you know because when I said Alice Little’s coming on the show people send s messages you know and so that’s where that one question came from earlier and that’s where that question comes from so um yeah I mean it’s funny because it’s like okay we exist in a world where one of the most frequently searched porch like like porn terminologies is like te and there are quite literally 18 19 and 20 year olds in porn I am 33 years old if somebody really is looking for like the barely legal effect there are women in this industry that really genuinely and truly are that like if that’s somebody’s fantasy I mean are there 18 19 and 20 year-olds that worked within some Nevada Bros not at the chicken ranch you have to be 21 and up at the chicken ranch but at other brothel absolutely you can work in a brothel at the age of 18 19 or 20 so like if that was the thing that somebody want it again they would just be going to the person that that’s the thing like I don’t know it’s just it’s so funny to me the way that people try to justify and explain it away yeah no unfortunately there are a lot of Internet stalkers that are out there on the internet and I think that’s probably the one thing that the old in the 80s that was better about the brothel is that you didn’t have the internet to harass the sex workers you know constant stalking harassing doxing I’m gonna out you to your parents I’m gonna post your address online I’m going to follow you home from work and unfortunately there are crazies on the internet who do follow through with those things yeah gotcha well I mean it really speaks as to why sex workers deserve respect why sex workers need protection and why legislation around sex work is so incredibly important because there are people out there that don’t like sex work there are people out there that don’t like empowered women un fortunately there are people out there that will do whatever it takes just interestingly enough in the news today there is a politician from the Democratic party that was found on shatter bait with her partner I guess her opponent stumbled across her old account and decided that he was going to dox her out her and try and make her ineligible for office for doing something that is perfectly legal to do using a website that literally thousands of Americans use but what I really want to know is how did he find that was he not on that website himself was he not right the very material that he had an issue with this particular person like that’s a really good point that is a really good point what do you think the the future looks like in terms of legalization in America do you think anybody else is going to do what Nevada is done like and who do you think I heard something like New York just decriminalized maybe or something uh not quite unfortunately so like there’s a lot of differences between decriminalization and partial decriminalization which is called the Nordic model the Nordic model is I want I think it was um Maine just passed the Nordic model uh the Nordic model essentially says that sex work itself we’re not going to Criminal alized but if you buy and like purchase criminalized that is criminalized unfortunately some counties have da specific non legislation but like localized policies where say the da of Manhattan says I will not prosecute consensual sex work that’s great the second that da is gone a new is going to come in and what’s going to stop them from turning around and now Prosecuting consensual sex work that it’s not real legislative policy that changes anything and New York does have a DI who has taken the stance that oh I’m not going to prosecute consensual sex workers however it’s not real policy it’s not like substantive change gotcha cool well um hey I feel like like I’ve taken a lot of your time um any anything that you wanted to say as we wrap up um just on all these topics that we’ve discussed I would say that it’s interesting for people to take a look at the history of sex work not just within America but the history of sex work as it exists overall within America just generally speaking so sex work has been with us since quite literally the dawn of time when we look at legislation such as hom Rob code which is the earliest form of legal documentation anywhere it talks about sex work it talks about the treatment specifically of sex workers and how they should be regarded within society when we look back at the pillars of power within Society we look back at Kings at ruler at all of these people people that were in command and oftentimes the people who were by their side were sex workers cortis Mistresses by another name I I mean we all know that people of power throughout history have had various Companions and that is still true to this day though the business model of course has changed in the sense that it is now of course much more advantageous for women to be in that position yeah it’s always seems like the politicians that are bitching about prostitutes that are caught in a hotel with prostitutes it’s it’s it’s very or sex workers sorry I you know yeah no it’s it’s very interesting because it’s like they have the option of going to a brel where it’s completely safe discreet a lot of the appeal for certain people is that like the Edge appeal and I think it’s important to talk about this because this is like the the cool factor that like some people for whatever reason decide to assign to the sex work industry it’s the the sexy Factor where they want it to have this like dangerous edge to it for them that’s part of the the fun the excitement the fact that they’re being a little bit naughty ooh I’m being edgy and like okay that’s great but you can actually just like pretend those things for sex workers it’s not like oo I’m being edgy like for independent sex workers they’re literally putting themselves at risk every time they go to work like it’s not this cool sexy edgy thing we actually need legislation to remove that like edginess it’s sexy enough on its own The Edge we don’t we don’t need that that doesn’t need to be a part of it yeah well well said well said U well I apologize for interjecting with that that anecdote I appreciate you taking it on I I wanted to hold my promise and give you the space of uh allowing you to close out the show with whatever uh you feel is important you were talking about some education um I I I apologize again for interjecting oh no it’s all good so like the the educational side of things when it comes to sex work the history of sex work and the value of sex work is something that we really haven’t touched on like well who these sex workers well everybody sees sex workers not just people who are tremendously successful but people of all walks of life come to see sex workers including people who feel that they can’t have access to Intimacy in other places many people that choose to come and see sex workers are folks that are disabled but folks that are married and want to explore bisexuality but they’re in like a heteronormative relationship so they can’t do that and they feel like they can’t date a woman and so they might come to a brel maybe they’re a couple and they want to try swinging but swinging is scary and they want to work with somebody who’s experienced for the first time maybe somebody is autistic and they really want to go super super duper slowly and be able to like stop and start the whole experience onto and have somebody that’s just going to like really understand where they’re coming from and create like a really sensory friendly environment and a positive experience and not make it too overwhelming cool all those people see sex workers all of them every last one of them yeah yeah well said well said well Alice I just want to thank you again for your time um the alice.com yes cool you probably find all your social media and everything from there right only fans be able to book all that good stuff yes I have all of my official links sent in there and of course if you want to reach me personally the best way is going to be by email Alice little atthe Alis little.com awesome well Alice uh thank you so much for your time and folks I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did we’ll see you in the next episode take care