In this episode, I speak to Bella Cummins. Madam Bella Cummins is the owner of Bella’s Hacienda Ranch, a legal brothel in Wells, Nevada. She is also the founder of the Onesta Foundation, a nonprofit organization with a mission to support Nevada sex workers and advocate for prostitution legalization throughout the United States.
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Links mentioned during show
- Bella’s Hacienda Website: Bellas.us
- TheColeMemo.com/Sex
The auto-generated transcript is available below.
[Music] welcome to the 11th episode of my series exploring the licensed prostitution industry in America this Series has a specific Focus us on the legal system that exists within Nevada which allows sex workers and brothel to be licensed at a county level Nevada stands as the only state in the United States with such a regulatory framework in this episode I have the privilege of hosting a conversation with Bella cumins who I’ve seen referred to as the American Madam she’s the owner and operator of a licensed brothel in the state of Nevada Bella joined me to shed light on the experience of running a brothel during the conversation she discusses criticisms and some of the positive impacts she’s seen with the industry to see all of the episodes that have been released in this series to date please go to the memo.com sex once again that’s t h c o l e m n o.com seex I’m excited to share that I recently had the opportunity to visit Bella’s brothel in Wells Nevada stay tuned I recorded a comprehensive tour of the premises and conducted interviews with Bella and her employees during my visit this exclusive content will be featured in an upcoming episode of the co memo you’re listening to the Cole memo I’m your host host Cole Preston each episode is available in audio video and transcript formats to access your preferred format simply check the episode description you’re currently listening to there you’ll find a link that will direct you to my website where you can view the transcript and discover the platforms offering this episode in audio or video if you’re having trouble locating the episode description on your chosen platform take note of the episode number and visit the memo.com there you can easily locate the corresponding episode and access the audio video and transcripts Additionally you might find any links to any references we make during the episode allowing you to further explore the topics that were discussed if you’re not tuning in Via patreon it’s worth noting that you’re hearing this episode after our loyal patrons if you’d like to become a patron and support the show visit theol memo.com patreon it’s a fantastic way to contribute and support my content however one of the most valuable ways to support the show is entirely free subscribe to or follow the show leave a positive review from wherever you’re listening to this episode mark this episode as a favorite give it a thumbs up leave a comment or post a review your engagement and support means the world to me today is December 28th 2023 this conversation was originally recorded around August of 2023 enjoy this episode of the Cole memo featuring The American Madam Bella cumins Bella thank you for joining me on the show how are you doing today really good Cole thank you for having me on yeah and uh please introduce yourself uh to our listening audience uh I’m Madam Bella cumins and I am the longest uh I’m going to say serving Madam uh I’m sure in the country and maybe the world so I’ve been uh a Madam for 37 years so I know a lot and so what I want to do is make sure that I answer everyone’s questions uh in a way that that works for individuals that maybe have never ever been exposed to what I call uh legal sensual sexual Services yeah and I just have to ask because if it’s not this your name’s just perfect just a yes or no question is is Bella cumins your stage name no wow it’s your real name yes oh my good so my real name is Bella sha okay coms all right you know when when a journalists write about a person they do they throw this in like you are uh not really I’m going to say your first name or the Madame Bella it’s always [ __ ] I think in a way you know it it would help if they would just shorten that up and just do Madam Bella or something like that versus uh that standard um journalist approach yeah totally understand so um you said you’ve been in for you’ve been in the business for 37 years yes I’m only 28 nice nice hey yeah made it ear I have I really really have been the time has flown by and you know I’m never going to say it was an accident that I wound up uh owning bellander Ranch but when I first was involved it was really just called the Henda and my late husband had bought in as a silent partner well after it took almost everything we owned and which me it was all in Hawk uh he needed for me to step up and figure out the bookkeeping figure out how to run it how to how to take something that really should have been profitable and uh seem to be falling on Hard Times very interesting very interesting um and and yeah tell me a little bit of how and why you got into the business I’m just curious um prior to David and David Andrews was his name to us getting together I had a restaurant out in Mound house which is very very close to all those properties that eventually Dennis Hoff uh accumulated but they were all different owners and there was about four at that time and my restaurant was very very close to uh those houses and so all of these owners or madams would come in and they’d have little meetings and they’d talk or or one at a time would come in and I’d talk to them and I was very young and so there were things that I wondered about like well why are the houses located like right in the middle of the District of what we’ call wrecking yards or junkyards back then and it was because with their location there there weren’t going to be any houses to push them out so it was a a strategy to put them because nobody wants to live next to a junkyard or a wrecking yard so I that made sense I went to see a few of those houses um after I sold my restaurant and I thought well those houses really didn’t interest me however I understood and I was learning so M eventually uh David and I we did meet he I met him in the restaurant and we got together and of course he was the guy that owned the the Henda so there is a fly in here get out of here those things are so frustrating you may have to edit that out but no it’s okay when I finally went up to see theenda M it it was pretty rundown and uh it had it had been through really great times however when the um when I80 was being built there was a 10-year period where all small towns from Windover to Reno uh had barricades on the exit where PE where all tours had to come through the town and go out the other side of town that lasted excuse me that lasted 10 years and then one day the barricades came down and it turned uh towns like Wells into a ghost town and the whole 10 years was supposed to be so these smaller communities could figure out how to thrive what was going to be the attraction for people to stop well that me y that meant that that as I was stepping on you could shoot off a cannon inside that brothel and never hit anybody but you know we were brainstorming and we decided that a CB radio you know what that is would be the solution because everyone had a CB right so we would be able to talk to everybody and then pretty soon we had 75 vehicles in the parking lot at the you know on a weekend so we were creative and and of course I also learned you know how things could be mismanaged or how um there was an element of dishonesty in I won’t just say this business but it included this business and so it was I set off on a course 37 years ago realizing that people could be honest and they just needed to realize why they should be honest and so for 37 years every day was working towards the cortison run brethel the only ctis on run bule explain that for folks that don’t know what you mean please well what that means is there’s no manager there’s no uh outside help that’s called uh bartenders hostesses uh someone that comes in and does the laundry someone that comes in and does the cleaning I mean this this is all handled within house and I the women that choose to work with me are totally self-starters and they’re honest and I have actually when I was moving back towards this area I left only cortison in that house for a week and when I came back they’d never missed a time on their CB radio schedule all the money was there and a lot of money was there and they had done everything just the way I had helped them learn how to do it and that told me right there that it it could be even more right that’s very interesting that’s very interesting so um it’s cool to hear that that it could take on its own form you know what I mean um run itself so to say and you hiring individuals that have never been in the industry makes it difficult to really put them in a position to help the cortison excuse me make the dollars that they came there to make because it’s out of their mental capacity to understand the hourly wage versus um let’s just say large quantities of money per hour and so it it actually uh I’m going to say it’s like a conflict where if let’s just say a cortison wants to make $1,000 a day and I hire someone outside that’s never ever ever imagined making $1,000 in a day they are they are never going to metaphysically be in alignment with the success of that lady of that cortison so then put about eight ladies in there and they all want to make the thousand and and this person I’ve hired his staff just melts down that it it’s out of their Realm of the possibilities to go oh we’re going to bring $88,000 in or something better and so it just it it it over the years when I would do that it we’d have snags and I thought well that’s why so even though there were many many many uh times that it it seemed as though I did everything incorrect I know in my heart it was still moving forward to this place to this time when uh when the idea of decriminalization and legalization even though really they’re two different things they’re at least going in a parallel Direction because first of all just to be human and want to have a consenting you know uh exchange of two adults never means that either one of them should be made a criminal so I’m sharing that the legalization merely gives PE let’s say individuals that might never be able to interact with another adult without many many forms of rejection would have a place to go and in all of my years there’s other reasons people never always want a partner for life maybe people got tired of splitting their stuff just to have a sexual relationship or I have individuals that are so busy with their career that they don’t have time but they have time to stop and and meet new ladies and there’s no obligation and no one feels badly about anything it’s just it’s it’s a everybody has a different reason for wanting to either go to a brothel or to want to do escort or some other form of how to meet someone safely without manipulation without uh with understanding that money is going to change hands if the if it’s what I call uh at least one of the individuals are in the business of sensual sexual services so you know I right now we aren’t doing Bitcoin so it it gets to be American currency yeah yeah are you saying right now you don’t do Bitcoin because you did it in the past or what no I think right now bitcoin’s a little in trouble so we just we don’t have one of those machines yet well it’s like it’s like uh with as volatile as Bitcoin to your point it’s like uh it’s a it’s a [ __ ] for a Bitcoin I mean two Bitcoin I mean 75 Bitcoin I mean you know what I’m saying how the value changes right 1.34 um so yeah so you know those are things that right now that’s the meain a barter sure and um you know you’ve you’ve mentioned a few things already CB radio I feel like by the way that was like the earliest form of social media if you think about it yeah and do you know do you know when I drive down the road I8 Interstate 80 there are more CB antennas on these Long Haul driver’s trucks than ever before or since it went through the oh well we’ll just all have a cell phone right it’s it’s like the new pop thing again yeah and you know we still talk on the radio and uh and still invite them in and or we can go pick them up because Wells believe it there’s five truck stops five so that’s a lot and it’s a lot of people that are going to stop there that we can reach and if nothing else they’re just going to know we’re there and they may tell someone else yeah yeah really quick where exactly is your brothel located you said Wells or it’s Wells Nevada the North sorry the the the crossroads is like Highway 93 and I 80 all right it’s the crossroads of the United States in the South I’m going to call it the Southwest that goes from Canada to Mexico and Coast to Coast everyone comes through Wells period get out of here everyone so they’re going to stop yeah and if nothing else if if we do the radio in like 30 minute shifts and that gals they you know it’s three or four times a day that they get on and they advertise for themselves nice and you know they share things like um besides directions they can say you know we have short parties for guys on the go that started a few hundred those range parties are the breaker breaker 69ine no breaker Breer it’s one nine I know but I was saying 69ine I like the 69ine yeah but that you know the idea is we can we can tell drivers information that doesn’t say what they’re going to get and how much right and we give them payment options so it they can ex they can uh describe themselves they can say um if you’d like a sneak peek of of me go to bell. us bell. us and then the lineup page comes up and uh he can scan through all the all the cortison that are on uh house yeah cool well again uh back to I was asking um what sets apart your establishments uh what do you feel sets apart your establishments you mentioned you know cortison run what are other some other things that you feel like sets apart your establishments or your establishment uh that I’m going to say the type of ladies that work with me okay and the reason I say the type of ladies is because they’re uh they have an education uh they’re they’re non-judgmental they have the ability to to talk to anyone and to actually uh I’m going to say be exactly what each client might be looking for so but the location is really important because without a great location you have to sit and sort of wait for people to show up or for cabs to bring them or you know where in that northeastern part of Nevada we are the first broel from Windover or which I should say Utah or Idaho so we’ve got two states to draw from that are both going to use those highways and then advertising we advertise in those two states uh of course we could reach into California because we’re a destination you know people can fly in because there’s a a little Airfield called Harriet field and it it was built I believe either the Navy or the Army but it’s a long Runway so it can even do like small Jets which I think is pretty fun to go pick them up yeah that’s cool yeah so the girls always kid that we’re going to go pick them up in the soccer van dang that makes me sad because I left just about that area of Nevada so it sounds like just a few about a month ago or so so I must have driven right past your establishment I wish we would have connected earlier but hey maybe that’ll be the next place we chat is in your establishment so wouldn’t that be wonderful it’s really it would be really cool um here’s the thing that I feel sets apart your establishments uh your women talk to me uh like Kiki came on my show she’s one of the women that speak that works for you and she’s able to openly talk about how you know about working there and telling people to come there which you mentioned advertising earlier for folks that don’t know you can’t advertise in Nevada so the way that you’re able to do that is you know people come on shows like mine and we can talk about the show that’s not advertising right but my experience with reaching out to some of the women at other brothel is they tell me that they can’t talk and actually Kiki was one of those women where she came from a brothel that said she couldn’t talk and now she’s that’s what she said she loved about your brothel was that you told her that she’s allowed to do media and stuff and I wanted to ask you like why do you think that other brothel aren’t like letting people do that like I when you speak of Dennis Hoff like that I thought that’s what like was his shtick you know like do media do media do media you know right um I believe that our freedom of speech has been um taken away from us and I also feel with all my heart that these ladies should be able to talk openly about what they do why they do it why they choose me or why I choose them because let’s face it we interview each other we both have the same business license just mine costs more so I want them to speak out they have a reason that they do it legally and I and and I’m really glad you brought that up because most houses want to censor what is said they want to look good they never want a lady to say something that would be embarrassing okay well how’s she going to learn how to speak how’s she going learn how to speak up and the in the older times maybe maybe some of the ladies weren’t as eloquent with their speech but I don’t work with ladies like that if they exist exist anymore and maybe they do maybe they don’t but the ones that want to apply at bisas under Ranch and go through the process of becoming a legal cortison working with me I would I would welcome anything they have to say uh I’m going to say positive or negative but I would like to believe that if there’s something negative that we talk about how to how to change that because every business has to evolve you know this isn’t the type of house where there’s a lockdown Pol policy I I don’t even have a contract now why don’t I have a contract because if they get there and they go oh my goodness this just isn’t going to work for me Cole I would say okay do you have enough money to get home it’s got to be a win-win and so when I’m interviewing ladies and I do the interviewing I might talk to them for an hour so that they have some idea of who is Bella why would I embrace all this homeostasis of what I’ve been doing what I’ve been able to count on financially and go to some place maybe far from home with no guarantees right and I I I believe in my heart that that’s why when they do arrive they turn into a Bella’s cortisone they don’t leave and you know I’d say last year there were probably four that came in and and they just said I see I understand I’m just not ready perfect I think and that way there’s no there the bridge is always there and we can we can know that when that g is ready that it’ll be simple she’ll have this idea of of what her pseudonym is really going to be about because they do they they have themselves like Marilyn Monroe and Norma Jean they’ got to keep them separate they’ve got that Norma Jean is going to get in the way of Marilyn on stage doing the inservice work she came to do so it’s like it’s like taking uh Norma jeene and putting her in the wardrobe with duct tape and and and her cell phone on mute right so that when that doorbell rings the the ladies can take what I call their inservice personality and do what they know they have a calling to do and it isn’t for everyone it’s ever since the pandemic the post pandemic there’s way more laughter and of these things and I don’t think there’s quite so much sex really yeah well I want to I have the pandemic on that’s one of the only things I really had prepared to talk to you about um so I want to get back to that but um I just wanted to dwell on that a little bit further it feels like your approach is like hey there’s nothing to hide and in fact I benefit from my women being able to speak up and speak out that was kind of my like you know I kind of wondered when I directly not only asked some of the women but I even reached out to the owner um I won’t say her name but you know who I’m talking about um she didn’t uh feel comfortable welcoming me and making immedia accommodations like you have been comfortable to do and like my number one thought is like and just correct me if I’m wrong please but like do you my number one thought when somebody says that is like do you have something to [Music] hide that’s why not question because because they were so open about it you know like that’s why I thought I thought like that’s going to be a no-brainer I thought asking somebody like you would be harder because maybe you’d be like less trustworthy or something like that you’re a smaller operation you know I you know what I mean like like you wouldn’t be trusting as me versus them they’ve been doing this for years and all of a sudden they’re like no well you know interestingly enough I I like to speak out and I mean not not beating a drum I never need to beat a drum but when I speak out it’s to help individuals gather knowledge about their humanness and why you know if why brothel exist why should someone stand outside and think they know what’s going on all right and when another house doesn’t want to speak up I am like you what’s going on you know is and maybe maybe they’re nervous maybe they think they’re going to say something that’s wrong or embarrassing or they’ve never talked out loud about this before and I you know I’ve given um like upper level uh business um lectures like at the community college you know like the 300 level business and the entrepreneurship and and I like to talk about how that actually parallels any business and with the brothel business being so misunderstood it’s really about people understanding that no one’s in that house running around naked and being crazy it’s really a it’s a Class Act maybe some of the other houses aren’t a Class Act is that I mean is that what you think like that that’s maybe that because I know I heard about a shooting recently there um and I was even going to try to interview that woman that apparently was involved um but she quickly didn’t want to speak to me anymore because of that happening um which I get you know it’s a shooting so but like do you think like is that emblematic of what might be going on there like fear fear all right people are always afraid that somebody’s going to put them in a position of embarrassment well I already knew in my heart that whatever I might be asked there would be nothing in you that you were going to ask that I would find embarrassing because I I could tell everyone I have made so many errors but I don’t feel badly about them and sometimes I had to do them several times thinking they were different and they weren’t I was just like is this the same mud that’s on my face you know but it’s people take life so seriously and it’s meant to be lived it’s meant to be lived sexually sensually and and it’s the the one thing that couples can’t talk about it’s the it’s the one thing that people have the most fear about and yet by golly they they all have hormones they all want to do it yeah and it doesn’t even matter their sexual preference it’s just it’s part of us being alive and we get to learn how to do it correctly so that you know like uh when Bell’s gals get the opportunity to speak out that they can become good speakers with their truth right not made up not fabricated but who are they becoming and I do share with the ladies that choose to work with me I said you came to me to become more of Who You Came to be and you’re going to be this far along today and when you know better you’ll do better but in the meantime lighten up this isn’t serious these guys come here to have a good time they’re already afraid they’re already afraid of re rejection right and you know and I I have been the only we’ll call it staff in that building uh I’m going to say at least eight times in my career the only person and the ladies and I mean I learned a lot about everything you can imagine yeah because you know whether the I was there before the internet be before HIV before condoms before there was really a good Lube I mean truly I am I’m way before all the crazy stuff that is now like common yeah to it’s a common practice like the ladies when I say well you know it used to be nobody wore condoms and they’re like mortified what I said you know it I said but it’s true the biggest problem was pregnancy that’s crazy that is crazy to think about um you know what do you do you think that um like sorry I was just setting something in my uh little shelf here do you think that I guess let me put it this way were you surprised to hear what I said because again I was surprised like I I thought it was going to be hard to get a hold of people like you since you were a small operation were you like surprised to hear that I didn’t have any luck going to the Bunny Ranch for example no no no uh it would have been the same with any of what is referred to as the big houses all right they have policies in place they have contracts I don’t even know what’s on them sure and it it doesn’t matter I am what those houses call a it’s like I’m part of them but I’m more of a midsize house I could have 14 ladies all right and it typically what I have is somewhere between 8 and 11 okay sometimes 12 and the ladies that work at the other houses when they’ve worked for me they all say the same thing Bella I make more money with you but and then whatever their butt is you know what whatever their however is meaning well maybe their home’s over there maybe they have children maybe maybe maybe there all these things but as far as enjoying working at Bellas with me I haven’t had one that that had a problem you know I I believe that Dennis Hoff and I said this in an interview during the the closed we were all closed down the pandemic and and when he passed away I I did I said you know I I’m sorry for everyone that loved him that that he had to go but I said now now he’s out of my way he was Nevada’s pimp to me he’s of stood in the dark I’m the American Madam I’ve been in business longer than he was ever in business even though we even now today I think we would probably be the same age but he had a different take on how to run the business and let’s say control and and his vision but as the American Madam I want things to move forward I want the women to un to understand their power to understand that this is a short career that if they’re going to make the money what’s next so when I interview I say what are your dreams and goals how can I help you help me because those are really really important to a young woman she might be 21 she might be 44 or somewhere in between but it’s like they come to me to be the very very best Mentor they can find that will hold them accountable and and and still be kind yeah I the one thing that I have to be is um the consistent you know you have to consistently have a good time you have to consistently be ready to to bend really because they every day is different what works one day might need to be uh just one one one degree course correction and then it might come back that it’s it’s in flux all the time because every one of us matters and every one of us has a different idea of what we require like the compassion the the great listening skills you know people rarely hear another person they’re usually thinking about what they’re going to say next which means they didn’t hear a thing yeah yeah and uh it seems like you just described many different ways that your leadership style differs from uh you know uh the recently passed I say recently it’s been almost 10 years well no 2016 2017 was when he passed anyways uh what are some other ways that you feel your leadership if if any uh that your leadership style differs from his just to give an example that I’ve heard that I think differs from your approach it sounds like you seem like uh first of all you hire a pretty like good amount of girls like it seems like there’s always too many women at some of those uh places and I know some guys might be listening right now like there’s no such thing as too many women but I don’t know like I went there and it was a Saturday night and it was [ __ ] dead and so maybe that was just an anecdotal experience of mine but like to me there were way too many women there and I know that they had to pay rent that night and they didn’t get the money out of me you know what I mean so um uh but to to wrap up that thought really quick another way that he that I heard he would like pit the girls against one another because he had this idea that if there weren’t competition amongst the women that that that they weren’t fighting hard enough or something like that uh doesn’t sound like that’s your approach Cole my Approach is that everyone gets along we don’t have to be best friends because we’re working Associates sure however at Bella Hender Ranch every lady is thrilled when another lady is chosen and let’s say makes her money there’s a celebration of wow good for you and what does that do really it brings it back tfold because we what does the secret reveal you have to want it for for everyone in order for it to come to you so the pie is exponential and so if there’s eight women then the pie should be eight times bigger so if a house is has a pie that gets to support let’s just say 20 women 25 women it isn’t going to work financially for everyone and it Bellas it gets to everyone has an off week but by the end of the month or by the end of the year that they’ve done really well and then they build regulars and their their self-esteem builds as they become better negotiators better I I tell them all you are a seductress a temptress and an chantress and how are you going to present yourself as all three of those and mean it because that’s where the fun is the fun is in being being in this I’m going to call it a one night stand and having it be like back flips off the headboard and by the way make the tuck miss the fan so you know it’s it’s a sensuality is what we’re missing in our lives never everyone but we are you know that that holding someone else’s hand the cuddling the any time a person in their in even in their personal relationship ship gets complacent and it isn’t that that same type of romance that you had in the beginning then a person’s making an error it is so easy to stay so close but it is work because it gets to be something that’s a cellular memory at a level that becomes so important to I’m going to say the individual doing it yeah that it brings on this whole new level of experiencing what the heart is supposed to feel like when it just it just gives off love I mean love for everyone it it’s it becomes this big right Rhythm and I know it can sound kind of silly maybe to some but that’s what we’re missing we just aren’t kind enough to one another and then in our closest relationships there’s more to be done you know U my beautiful husband and I have been together 23 years over watching TV at night he’s still holding my hand you know it but but we had to become that we had to remember each other at that level so when clients come into Bellas and they’re nervous how do we how do we have that nervousness be replaced with acceptance and the fact that life might be really hard out there but you’re perfect just the way you are today come on in yeah well hey I love that and congratulations uh on 23 years with your husband that’s really awesome um I I will move on I want to move on to like Des scheduling versus legalization but I wanted to ask you again did what I just say about not to dwell on other houses but did I what I just said again surprise you at all the idea of like a toxic environment where you pit people against each other have you heard of that before and I ask you this because I’m truly I’m from Illinois so I’m trying to make sure that like I’m not from Nevada and I want to make sure that you know you know the whole rumor grape fine I want to make sure that I’m not just talking out of my ass so like if you’ve also heard that that does that does a lot to like make it seem like it’s not just [ __ ] you know I will tell you what I have what I believe okay I know what I’ve heard but that’s still third party sure but I see in the words I hear that women aren’t meant to get along and then they get reprimanded for that but something is happening that pits them against one another and so I agree with you that I feel like these these women are I want to say this correctly it’s like women were taught to to get the other woman in the back first all right and that isn’t it isn’t how it’s supposed to be a woman should have another woman’s back all right so that’s how it is it fell is but I I am never hearing that coming from other houses but there’s this you it’s like an animosity it it seems as though it it’s like an evilness that they are so did I lose you 100% that there are too many broel oh you’re back too are you I yeah I lost you for a second you’re back though okay there’s too many broel out there lost you again oh you’re back I wonder yeah we’re having this huge storm right now it just started oh darn darn well a storm Bella a storm got in our way yesterday we were just getting to a really really good part of our conversation I felt and then a storm came in and and we got interrupted so if folks are wondering why I’m wearing a different shirt at this time why you’re wearing a different shirt it’s because it’s a new day but we’re back together and uh I wanted to pick up where we left off I asked you about the culture the difference of culture between and in your establishments compared to some of the larger houses and one of the last things you were saying before we got cut off was that it seems like instead of the women having each other’s backs at this at these establishments that they’re looking for a way to almost like stab somebody else in the back first instead of having each other’s backs um I don’t know if that helps jog your memory on where you were but yeah absolutely and and I firmly believe that uh in any business but we’re really talking about the the brothel industry and cortison that women learn how to be respectful to one another that that they aren’t enemies they they should never ever have been pitted against one another like um like someone’s better than the other because that is it’s never been true you know and as I I do my training and and mentoring I share with them there’s only one of them and they have to be their self because everyone else is already taken so they’ve got to be themselves and and how to take that and understand the only person to that they wind up in competition with ISS eles and how’s that working for them if they aren’t feeling good about themselves well then that means somehow or another they felt like they were imperfect and from what I can see we’re if we’re all born if you will in the likeness of and perfect who told us we were imperfect they had no right to do that and you know a person could say well well you don’t know you know I have these anomalies or whatever it is that that isn’t the any anomaly has nothing to do with the Perfection within what a person has to offer another business and in what I’m going to call the sex industry sensual service you know providers they’re doing something that less than I’m going to say 1% of the world can even do to actually be in service to another in a way that that’s I’m just going to say it’s good for both of them it it brings something to each one of them and and they’ll never know what it is but it’ll help them become a a a better somehow a better person a a person that actually feels better about thems elves it won’t be in is like right away but as time goes on it it lingers in the subconscious and we begin to understand that we’re really here to have a good time yeah and one of the ways the one of the workers phrased it to me is like that attitude that it sounds like Dennis Hoff had was encouraging a scarcity mindset instead of an abundance mindset in other words there’s enough for everybody right we don’t have to be fighting each other and um one of the ways like I said one of the workers put it to me is we can bring in more money if we work together like hey everybody wants a threesome so why don’t I Loop in one of my for fellow women you know and uh let’s do that and but like you say it’s almost like this attitude that they’ve been trained on in some of these larger houses is counterintuitive to upselling and bringing in more business you know now absolutely and and in my opinion I i’ I’ve never been able to figure out why houses would bother to do that it creates drama it creates uh animosity and as you just so brilliantly stated what what would keep clients away that energy versus the welcoming and come on in hey would you like to be with me and one of my friends you know we can really have some fun and I believe that that’s part of the difference in Bellas we we do a lot of double parties we do a lot of triple parties with it’s about what experience would a would a client like to have safely yeah yeah and I guess just again I don’t mean to dwell on this as I told you before we uh uh parted yesterday that I do want to talk about uh you know um some other topics but this was like an unexpected topic that came up for me again when I did this project when I started this project the last people that I thought I would have any issues with were the H States I thought it would be like hey come on Cole come on in do this thing because that seemed like how their attitude was and so I guess just as a parting thought on this entire subject with the big houses why do you think that their attitude has changed is it just simply that Dennis died and that he’s not the confident man that can be on the camera anymore or do you have I mean do you have any guesses as to why they I again I didn’t think that I would have any troubles with them you know I’m actually glad that you asked that question and I know that I have to answer in what I consider my opinion or a hypothetical way yeah but Dennis Hoff was what I call a huge energy and yes he had Madam susette at his side and I believe with all my heart that Madam susette doesn’t want the Limelight she didn’t want Dennis to pass away it was never her intention to fill his shoes and how many times do we go through life thinking we’re going to be here and and the date is open-ended and then when that happens how do you fill that Man’s Shoes even though I don’t really believe he was great for the industry he did get a lot of attention but I also feel like it was was never a good thing for him to portray himself as Nevada’s pimp he didn’t sound like a leader he didn’t sound like he wanted these women to really accomplish something and me as the American Madam you know I I’m I’m the spokesperson now I’m the you know 37 years the only woman that’s ever been in business legally you know in this legal industry for that long and and I’m in the light I’m the one saying women here’s the direction and um I know in my heart that that’s a reasonable answer to why the door seems closed and locked she just doesn’t want to and the ladies she doesn’t really want them to speak out because I don’t think it was part of her um job description with Dennis to vet who’s going to say the right thing on behalf of uh let’s call it the Hoff Empire the half group of broel and I you know and no one wants to make make a mistake but what if an a lady gets interviewed and it’s embarrassing but what if it’s her take on how things are going does that really have to tarnish the house um oh gosh I would hope no and I would hope that there is such great communication in the in every establishment that anything that comes up that’s that needs to be addressed and needs to transition gets talked about but I’m I just don’t I don’t think you’re ever going to get in there Cole yeah dang it’s just you know I grew up and it’s nothing it’s it’s honestly just a a bias of me growing up because when I grew up one of the first people even though you know I don’t agree with him on everything that I saw was Denis Hoff and Dennis Hoff is the person that I credit for making me a supporter of the league ization of sex work you know what I mean and so that’s why I think it’s it was like such a blow for me CU I was like damn did I just ask too late like if I would have asked when Dennis was alive yeah I felt like he would have been like come on Cole come on you know but it and everything happens in in the correct time yeah all right with the correct people and I’m going to say that in order for this rural industry to evolve it has to become empowering for clients and women alike I have spent more years standing behind the bar helping men way more men than women saying what are your dreams and goals well you don’t know what happened to me hold it Bella doesn’t let us talk about that she wants us to talk about our dreams and goals our sexuality where we’re going and and what’s good about today and in this industry that evolves sensual sexual services this is an important part of how it evolves and I’m never going to say that houses can’t have their rules and regulations I’m saying within those rules and regulations there has to be empowerment and acceptance for clients and women collectively yes so that we benefit even more than just a release right because it’s a I’m aware that now as we talked about yesterday there’s more laughter there’s more communication I mean talking listening and yes the other part fits in there too but it’s as if people want to wake up and and express their their um humanness at a deeper level but that still includes the touch yeah exactly yeah and what you said earlier I definitely think is on par it was one of my first guests guesses in fact that maybe susette just didn’t sign up for the gig that she’s in now you know what I mean like she didn’t want to be in the Limelight like Dennis did and like you are comfortable with being you know like that’s just not who she is you know and maybe she doesn’t feel comfortable like you say if some women woman were to say something bad she doesn’t feel comfortable or confident enough to just be like you know stuff happens sometimes but that doesn’t happen regularly in our house uh this is a legal establishment where we you know what I mean like there it takes a level of confidence for you to come on and just because you as you said yesterday you’re able to have that confidence because you have nothing to hide you know nothing’s going on you know what I mean so correct and the more that I get to to talk with beautiful souls like yourself the more people are going to begin to understand what happens at Bell Hender Ranch I I am unable to speak speak about other houses sure but I believe that everything has to evolve or it dies yeah and uh just to to move on in in our subjects uh because I feel like we dwell a lot on the the Hoff houses um or or the the big houses as we call them um you know the the way that these rules came to be I have always found interesting because again I just said I’d move on from Dennis Hoff but one of the things that Dennis Hoff put in my mind when he would talk about this was that Nevada legalization was this sort of like Progressive open-minded hippie cool reform that happened in the 70s and I’ve done a lot of research into it and I even read I forgot the book today but it’s brothel Wars have you read that book or heard about that book no I was involved in one of those oh you were we’ll have to talk about that oh my God you know that’s a whole another story but oh my God Cole you know there there are people that I’m going to say right now gentlemen that buy brothel and I walk up to them and I can hand them the golden key and they’ll toss it right back at me and and I’ll have a full parking lot and they’ll be looking out the window and they it’s like they they they don’t want to hear they don’t want to you know you’ve got to crawl before you can walk and then before you can run and when I first came on in the 80s I’m going to tell you you could shoot off a cannon in that building and never hit anybody but the place across the street was booming and I needed to know what she knew that I didn’t know oh I didn’t realize there’s a brothel across the street from yours there is and still to this day yes wow it is it’s a um it’s a collection of 1950 trailers pushed under a roof and even now I went over I handed the brand new owner the key and he handed it back to me and they have no business but I I know what I’m talking about I know how how it works I know how to attract clientele but for about 23 years now that beautiful want to be licensed across from me is no different day after day after day and my house is filled with lovely ladies what’s the difference leadership it’s the direction I’m going have you ever thought about buying that brothel I can only own one oh really is it like a county it’s a yes it’s a it’s actually a city ordinance within the but I I don’t know how the county doesn’t rule that but the city and the first thing I’d have to do is bulldo it and then there wouldn’t be one standing there anyway because it’s 1950 trailers what are you going to do with that how do you make that the Taj Mahal you can’t so I I don’t look next door I know in my heart when I was struggling the most I was in my own way I needed to be Progressive I needed to learn things that I didn’t know yet and so now I it’s at a whole new level now it’s really about what I had a vision of and 1987 but like G Brook’s song it’s a good thing I didn’t know it’ be 30 something years later I would have said you got to be kidding me right and maybe I wouldn’t have thought that I had the stamina to do that but I didn’t know so here I am I’m I’m able to speak out uh you know uh hired another beautiful young lady from one of the big ranches today who’s going to you know she’s going to uh honor her contract but it’s like I said that’s an important thing honor your contract you have to have integrity you have to have uh an impeccable word I said these are all things that are super important at Bellis hassi and the ranch yeah we live by The Four Agreements there which is an impeccable word uh never take anything personally never make assumptions and always do your best and they are four really difficult things to do Moment by moment yeah so does that mean that girl that you hired today are you saying that by honoring her contract maybe she has to like wait a little bit before she comes and works there or what do you mean yes because she’s going to get to wait most of a month but I told her I said that’s okay you know you’re learning if there’s ladies there that that know more than you do learn from them and bring that with you in your tool belt so you can understand why you went there to begin with right but you get what I’m asking the you mentioned it yesterday that some of the other houses have them sign a contract are you saying that you hired this woman and her contract maybe says like she can’t work for a period of time or something is that what you’re saying or am I it means she she has to stay I’m sorry I must have misunderstood she gets to stay at that particular brethel until the end of her contract oh and and that’s good keep you know follow through with what you thought you was best for you because in the long run she’s going to find out it was it may never be the house she ever returns to but it’ll be what she needed to know from that house before joining with me and the other ladies okay can I ask you a question that I don’t expect you to know the answer to um what do you think would happen if she just said [ __ ] it and came and worked for you anyway like would they like punish her or is there like a fine that can be issued I’m just curious I am sure that something would happen uh financially you know that would be you’ve left us early uh it could be a percentile of of what and I understand that for them well there are there are not there are similar agreements in other Industries it’s like this idea of non-compete have you heard of that right but in this case it would leave them an open room that they aren’t they don’t have someone on the books to just slide into okay and so that that let’s call it the penalty reimburses them a few cents or a few dolls oh okay so you’re saying because the woman okay okay I feel like you just made it clear for me but can I try to say it back to you really quickly yes it’s like you signed you made an agreement with the woman that she’s going to be there I’m just going to throw out a random period of time three months and by agreeing done that and signing that paperwork you’re expecting her to pay the room and board and you know half of all of her bookings for three months correct and so if she doesn’t do that well like you said you have an open room and then you’re not get getting the same income as you had expected therefore a problem comes up is that pretty absolutely so in other words you might only have that room vacant for a day or a week however it puts uh it’s like makes the company juggle right right a little bit to to slide someone in on short notice yeah and ladies do travel to the house so it’s important that whether it’s important that whether it’s a contract or an impeccable word that I can I could count on their word right unless there’s an unforeseen emergency but that’s you know extended yeah and their word is the the importance of their word just for folks that are listening and aren’t clear it’s that you’re paying rent and they need to be able to pay their mortgage I mean and so they rely on your rent as part of that agreement you know yes the paying of the overhead of a business that’s expensive to run yeah yeah well thank you for like helping me to understand that because at first I wasn’t exactly sure um what you were saying but since we just brought up like rent and there’s other costs that these women have to pay um just at like Bella Zenda I’m I’m curious if you’re able to tell how much does a woman like owe for lack of better words on day one you know with uh the medical Sheriff’s card rent food I don’t know if that’s goes into it um on day one um the most important thing is that she has a a a medical clearance and that’s $150 if I was to give you the whole total of what it cost to go into business for for uh two of the three would actually be yearly charges okay a $200 Nevada state business license is a yearly charge a sheriff’s card or work card from the city of Wells is um actually 70 $75 right now and 25 but that’s good for a year so those are two yearly charges on the medical it’s 150 uh on the first visit the next three visits is only 100 because it’s merely a culture and then they would be back to blood and culture for 150 following 3 weeks the same just a culture $100 each week so it it’s actually incredibly affordable to for the the business expenses that are the legality part of it but there’s other things like travel where do they live uh because it Bella is it’s a you know they cook for themselves individually of course they get to go to the store and pick up a few things for a few days just until they’re uh let’s say know exactly what they’re going to want to cook how they’re going to want to eat and sure you know every lady has her own place in the in the refrigerator and we’ve got a lot of refrigerators got a lot of freezers and and and that’s theirs that’s where you know that’s still part of of their business plan how do they want to maintain the body they have you know how many days a week do they work out are they available 24 hours a day do they really need their sleep and they work uh 12 or 16 hours a day that’s their business plan yes I do expect it to evolve but it’s it’s most important that they begin to understand that what they decide to do they must be consistent at it and in that part of the training I say even an Olympic athlete has to train when they don’t want to yeah and that’s the difference between success and mediocre yeah or downright failure yeah and you know uh I was going to ask you um I wanted before I asked you I wanted to preface it with just for our listeners that this isn’t like something that’s uh unique to the sex industry um for example people that cut hair they may have to rent out a space think of the space in the ter in in the terms of sex work as the brothel right it’s your it’s your space to practice your work that you’re licensed for do you think that’s a good analogy yeah why you hang your shingle now now I wanted to ask I wanted to preface it with that so that people knew it wasn’t unique to sex work um how often do you find women like going into debt my girlfriend for example is a does used to do cutting hair and stuff and she would quickly go into debt having to play for like the place that she cut hair at and so I didn’t know if like this is kind of me segueing to the pandemic but also post pandemic like how has business been and I’m kind of starting that conversation with asking like do women fall behind on some of those fees that you’re talking about because the $150 is Weekly right well yes that’s on their their medical um there is a policy at many houses that if a lady books $1,000 there is no rent for that day and the rent at Bell is $30 a day okay typically at the end of the week any one of the ladies will pay me somewhere between $3 and $90 rent but they’re self-starters they’re professional cens and they’re going to attract I’m going to say the clientele that’s looking for them and so in all honesty they’re never in debt yeah yeah I just the reason I asked that question is because I didn’t ever think about how the how those things add up and like one of the examples a girl gave me was you know she had a $200 party so the house gets a hundred but then she also had to deduct medical and then there’s the sheriff card you know so she didn’t actually like make $200 on her first party so that’s kind of where that question was coming from and I understand I work to help them understand that it’s at the end of the week that and and they’re independent contractors so at the end of the year they get a $10.99 so it’s never never look at your first day come in with your 150 all right uh that way they’re still in the block okay and then from there uh the the rest of the paperwork catches up because there’s a slight delay in order to get fingerprints but in in in order to uh satisfy and it’s an important part Public Safety the medical is what is really important right and so at the end of the week if if they have um let’s say the most they would owe is $210 at the end of the week and so it’s focusing on not daily money that’s going to take care of itself but what is their goal by the end of the week and they need to write it down okay if they’re going to make 5,000 gross well then they already know that’s 2,500 right all right so on on 2500 the house for our listeners okay but for each one oh sorry okay I misunderstood right so for each one so because it’s a split all right so the only other things that would come off of their half would be securing uh their yearly business license or work hard or let’s say they want to tip out some of the staff but there aren’t hidden fees and charges at belland Ranch that half is their half and the only little bit would be a small amount of rent at the end of the week that gets determined by how many days they were um over ,000 dollar a day yeah so you know and in the attraction of money just like in thinking Grow Rich it says how much money do you wish to attract write it down down and then what do you plan on exchanging for the money there’s never something for nothing well what do these ladies exchange for the money the very best experience that a client can have with them today right yeah and again you know the the that question comes from I want to acknowledge again that this is not unique to the sex industry having to pay room and board to you know practice your business um but that question comes from you know a person that kind of described their experience as and and by the way this person still is supportive of sex work but just to quote them they said their experience was like I came into Nevada forward thinking thinking about the future and very quickly got sucked into the present and what they called like this Vortex of debt and they just felt like they couldn’t get out of it you know so that’s where that question comes from a Cole I hear this story more than you think all I can share with you is that story would never come from a cortison at Bellas and it wouldn’t be because I told her what to say it would be because that’s the truth yeah sometimes ladies get the wrong idea about little houses or big houses and when they go to the incorrect house it’s devastating for them right right yeah yeah and and speaking of incorrect houses uh you don’t have to name any uh particular ones but I’ve heard of these houses that exist in Nevada that people will go to and people like the women there don’t even speak English and that like seems like they don’t want to be there have you heard of the those types of houses uh it’s been a few years since I heard about that uh I I’m sure there’s a a huge possibility yeah I’m just unaware of any at this time sure sure um cool well yeah thank you yeah thank you I have T I have taught Asian people how to speak English over the years and why didn’t I take the time to learn Mandarin or Chinese it’s like come on Bella you can do this you can absorb a few words you know yeah yeah well um I wanted to ask you know uh um I was mentioning earlier that I thought of Nevada legalization as a sort of like Progressive open-minded hippie cool reform and when I did some research it seemed like it was at least the beginning of it I’m not saying that this is the way that it is today but it seemed like at least the beginning of it in the 70s was rather like a violent Libertarians in the desert defending their rights uh or their right to profit off of women um who they may or may not see as people I don’t get the impression that that’s your idea because you’re a woman no but no but you have that man Peg right yeah I met him I did I met him did you meet Walter are you talking about Walter no no no okay no no it was uh it was um it was Joe okay Joey and Joe Joe when I when I came to Bellas a lady that originally built the Henda uh was was named Helen Carter and she said look I knew Joe when he was a cab driver in New York City and didn’t have shoelaces in his shoe she said he’s not a good man and that’s a quote from Helen Carter so I I think he had some some things that weren’t nice about him I do think that he he found his way and and profited from women um by the grace of everything he was able to somehow get this legislation in 1971 there’s still a little too much what I’m going to say of making money from the ladies and maybe never giving back enough to help them move forward yeah I’m working on it yeah and I think like the the way that I heard it said at the time that these rules weren’t meant to protect the workers or the people coming in the patrons or the communities in which they were located only to protect somebody like Joe that had the license that wanted to profit you know off of those women you know and and he did and when my my SE well I don’t know if it’s in sexual healing but I know it’s in my Memoir but you know he it he he manipulated a lot of things and a lot of people probably I think we all know he did but to to get the the notoriety he did and there is a possibility that a a little part of the Hoff personality springboarded off um the idea of Joe Cony what do you mean by that I mean that it see I mean definitely never that I don’t think it was that same harshness sure but I think that that there was a part of of um Dennis that that personality of Joe confor but like he resonated with it a little and you know and being somebody and and the big parties that he used to have and and just there was just a lot of things that I could I could picture him not never being in competition but but but wanting that same kind of power or notoriety or fame sure and and he did get it uh you know there’s people that think he wasn’t the greatest nicest guy I didn’t work or have anything to do with his his BRS I I could never say and even if someone did tell me something it’s he’s not here to qualify it so I would say oh okay but there’s no truth when someone can’t qualify right if it was true or not so whatever happened uh whether it’s Joe Cony or whether it’s uh Dennis Hoff that that went to bed when they pass through no one will actually know yeah and one of the questions I’ve been asking in this series is if you were going to copy and paste do you know what I mean by that just cool yeah if you were going to copy and paste what Nevada has done into other states what are some things that you might change or do you think that it would be just a simple copy and paste because I truly believe it should be legal across the world but I’m asking you as a person that works in the industry should there be anything that we should consider before we do this Nationwide or worldwide that is a really good question and you know you’re the first person to ask me this question so thank you yeah yeah all right and it’s a a little bit of a lengthly subject yeah take your time first of all Nevada when they decided that counties could decide uh whether they wanted to embrace the legal prostitution uh approved by the the legislature I believe with all my heart that the cities and the the cities that are are are their own basic County shouldn’t have somehow politically been omitted from having having the same thing as rural Nevada I feel in my heart it should have been cart Blan cross the board you know what I mean that might not have been the correct word I think that was correct uh but reason I say that g to say that because after watching what’s happening in the two largest cities for years it’s corrupt it’s it’s the side of that word prostitution that gives prostitution that energy that’s that’s dark yeah and can I guess are the are the two cities Reno and Las Vegas yes and there should be a district there should be a place that people in those cities or people visiting those cities can go to and that would never hurt that City unless well it would be a benefit to the city first of all and secondly if there wasn’t something possibly going on in these large casinos that’s more like a a something sexually to be questioned they should be embracing it because Las Vegas is as much adults as children now and it is very tarnished to have trucks with young women on the trailer you know on the as as a as a a banner if you will and a telephone number to call and you’ve got families walking down the street or I’ve been in those casinos I can point out every single escort or I’ll nicely call them that I I can see them I know what they look like and when they’re out working and they’re they know that they can be in certain casinos or not but somehow or another that 400,000 went to 600,000 probably pretty soon it’ll be a million but you know uh there was just an amazing Senator uh in in the legislature that really quick what do you what did you mean by those numbers do you mean the population oh thank you I should have said the population yes okay thank you population they just keep raising the number so that they they just keep theel Out Of Reach of having to go there right for folks that are listening there was like a a a number in which um if you had more than that in your population you were not allowed to have legal prostitution in your city is that correct is that what you’re saying or in your or in your county thank you either one so you know that that was uh in my opinion one of those manipulative moves where okay we’ll give the counties the ability to vote it in but it’ll basically be outlawed in the two largest cities and I’m saying that is not a cut and paste okay well I should say it is a cut but you know right I would want that to be understood as legalization moves across people never does everyone have to go to a brothel but they have to know where they’re located so if there’s people that are looking for that that they can find it and the taxes get paid all right if if um 10,000 men and 40,000 uh working women go into Las Vegas and I hate to call them pimps but I will that 10,000 let’s say there’s 40,000 ad do show up who where’s the tax money well and the biggest thing for me is Nevada and I just Googled this has the highest rate of illegal sex trade in the nation yet Nevada is the only state in the United States with legal sex so it’s like on one hand it’s the highest Las Vegas is the highest with illegal sex but we’re the it’s the only state that has legal sex so it’s like hold on a second You’ think that like it’d be another state like You’ think that like Nevada would be the lowest or like I don’t know somewhere in the middle but here we are the only state out of 50 with a legal option and they’ve got the highest rates of illegal sex trade that’s is that a cut and paste right is that a cut and paste a good point I think I made your point for you you did but it’s that’s what’s happening okay and yet I’m paying my fair share all those women and men or whoever they’re sharing it with it’ll pay a dime you know so what’s interesting about your per approach is you’re saying am I correct correct me if I’m wrong you’re saying that Las Vegas and and Reno should be allowed to have those and what I find interesting about your P first of all is that correct yes I will say that I know it happens in reeno but Las Vegas is really uh really the offender here they’re the ones because we you know as you know there are uh well there is at least one house that’s I don’t know 20 miles from Reno right so um and so if I was to really say Los Vegas is the conundrum and and the Le for for our rating that’s where it’s happening sure well it the thing that I find striking about your perspective and you being so welcoming is that not to get back on Dennis Hoff again but he talked a lot of [ __ ] about the illegal sex trade he talked he called those women dirty in my and in my opinion I don’t know if I told you this Bella but I come from like a cannabis show we talk about legal weed and I get pretty pissed when legal weed companies try to say that like their weed is the only good weed it’s like hold on a second you know like just because you’ve got the license right do you get what I’m saying yes I’m sure there is a lot of good weed out there well and for being a my point is though for being a champion of sex work it seems seemed weird for me for him to denigrate a subsect of that industry you know what I mean like he’s saying like those those women are dirty and I do understand what you’re saying so here’s another change that we hadn’t gotten to yet all right I believe with all my heart that there are bral are important a a a legal house a place a destination however there are many women that want to be massage therapists or they want to be an escort uh or they really just want to be a a a call girl upper end uh there should be regulations that are similar for the workers in those three sectors that are in place for uh a cortison inside a brothel and by that I mean if they have a medical clearance a Nevada business license and some sort of credential as a let’s say besides the Nevada state business license they had a um a City of Reno business license because there probably isn’t a work card so they had those documents and they got arrested and I was the judge and they came in front of me and they said your honor I’m a Assa proprietor here are my documents I would throw the case out she’s merely an independent businesswoman the same thing with massage parlors people want to go to massage parlor there are happy endings have the credentials so it isn’t this under the table um anyone can get into trouble and and the escort the same thing if there’s going to be more than just time and companionship have the documents and then you have four just right there is four different Avenues of Public Safety and um entrepreneurial sex workers yeah um I just wanted to continue to give you the space on this like what are some other things that you feel um maybe we should modify or think about before we copy and paste I really never see a reason for criminalization I am as long as it’s to con consensual adults it seems to me that we make criminals out of people being people so distinguishing between documented workers sex workers and illegal should be another part of that but I also believe that decriminalization total decriminalization and updating regulations to include areas I’ve mentioned and differentiating between illegal undocumented and documented should all be part of the Rewritten updated NRS code that not only deals with brothels and what they called prostitution but it would be it would be a a grander blueprint that’s 21st century friendly that would really really be the blueprint for other states and revenue and Public Safety yeah tell me more about like what I feel like I’m misunderstanding what you mean when because at first I was like completely on board with you when you said complete decriminalization I’m like hell yeah but then you and I just I think I’m misunderstanding you you said something about documented and undocumented like what do you mean by that okay by documentation I mean their their business I’m to say people because there might actually be men that carry the same documents because they’re right okay so I’m saying women but it’s across the board true true yep so if they’re a a man gay trans a woman uh uh there’s there’s a way to write that that’s 21st century um updated friendly uh good business model yeah and then there would be something that that a state could just adopt that doesn’t look like it was written in 1971 yeah right and I believe that all experiences of of what we’ll call our sexuality is and and that’s you know all these different that are coming out now they just get to be expressed safely without making anyone a criminal thank you it’s like this is a this is a freedom espousing country Land of the Free are we really if we’re not allowing people to free to the freedom to choose to do this like the way I’ve thought about it if I could put it as simply as this you can pay somebody for a neck massage or for a foot massage or you can pay somebody for a different massage on a different part of your body wherever that may be I don’t know but you know what I mean like that’s the way I look at this and it’s like in this freedom of spous and Country we’re really GNA tell adults that you can’t do that I can’t massage this person’s neck for 20 bucks what the [ __ ] what WTF yep yeah so it there it is it’s never even puritanical at this point I’m going to just say Point Blank it’s ridiculous it is it is I mean it definitely it definitely should be ashamed they should be ashamed of wanting it to all be control in their way when we come here to be human we don’t come here to see how hard we can work and how much we can eat or drink we’re here for the touch we’re here for closeness we we are given all these hormones and and we have this natural desire to breede we have this natural desire to to have these releases and and then they’re going to tell us we can’t and I’m saying well then let’s just put parameters that prevent the spread of STI or STDs okay that’s great make it a a taxpaying uh legitimate um oldest business in the world and that to me is Progressive and I’m going to say sane yeah and I want to get back to the idea of the puritanical values that I do believe still exist but are you good on time I wanted to just check on cool um one of the things that I saw in the I think it was preco I saw to your point I saw that some counties in Nevada had adjusted their regulations so that male sex workers could well so that males could become sex workers because before then yeah there were only uh like gynecological exams for lack of better words I’m sure I might not be using the right word there um but there were exams for a woman but there were not regulated approved exams for a for a man and I’ve right I’ve under the impression that some counties have since introduce those regulations but I’m also the under the impression that it’s not something that’s widely practiced what are what are your thoughts on that I have some thoughts on that that maybe we can laugh about but I’m just curious what are your thoughts about men in the sex industry first of all you a brothel since the beginning of its existence whether it was way back in in uh the Gold Rush days or whatever it was all about the women following the men true and then being there to be in service right right I am very comfortable with that being the case okay that when a when a gentleman walks we’ll just say a gentleman a woman or a couple walk into Bellis hasand Ranch that they’re there to choose the woman they’re looking for okay and that’s just I I just never see that being part of of evolution a man being involved no I do believe that men aren’t wired to be with just any woman without taking a pill well I believe that just let me finish this one point okay and and of course I have tons and tons of customers that I’ve I’ve said this to like well why can’t I get a job here and I said look so what if a lady comes in and she’s about 60 and you know and she but she’s older you know maybe she’s missing a tooth maybe she’s not and then right behind her the doorbell rings and it’s this cute little 21y old blonde which one is it going to stand up for right and which and and if you get chosen you know it will be a probably a piece of cake if it’s the 21y old but you’re in the body of a woman can respond to any situation she isn’t only she she’s able to perform what I’d call like the gisha like duties with a man a woman or couple because her body doesn’t have to have something that stands up it’s a it’s a receiver and of course it it there’s it’s just science and so that’s my scientific logical reason for if there’s going to be male brothel then then make it that way where it’s all men and and and then they can create how that’s going to work for the the the client let’s say what’s the client going to do if a if a another man walks in I you know I mean what’s the cortison we’ll call him a a I guess what are we G to call him the male sex worker what what’s he going to do if another man walks in and wants him is this for women only is it for women for couples only there’s all of these things that have to be factored in so of course it’s possible to have uh you know clients that well I should say I have to back that up let’s say a gentleman is able to do all three of those you know meaning they’re they’re okay with that but maybe there’s uh a sex worker gentleman that’s only good with a man or only good with couples or only good with a woman and it all of those things enter into are are now sexual expressions I know uh from a a little cortison that worked for me for quite a while that in New York you know an a woman can have an escort that’s a man I don’t know how far that goes but it’s the same you can pay for a female or you can pay for a male and maybe it’s truly just time and companionship yeah yeah and um my apologies I didn’t mean to cut you off earlier but I was going to say that you know just speaking from a man’s perspective throw let’s throw men under the bus I’ll do it let’s do it um like and this is may be TMI for some of my listeners but Madame Bella I figure you can handle this information like for example if a woman were to for lack of better words blow me to completion right give me oral sex and then that woman were to ask me to have sex with her it’s not that I can’t do that but the chances of me coming again uh as quickly as I did are are lower and and I know that it’s not all about me coming especially if I’m the sex worker it’s about the person coming but I think there’s something to be said about men’s performance and I think that’s kind of what you were saying and look I don’t like throwing my men under the bus here but like look I think that a woman is able to perform and I hope this doesn’t sound like chauvinistic or SE sexist or whatever but I feel like a woman is better able than a man to do that than a man is that’s the science behind it women and and now let’s face it Lube has been really Prof that’s the other thing I was gonna say is that like you you basically just need Lube you need good Lube I mean change the oil right but you that that’s it and I mean gentlemen are typically wired that you need a little rest just just you got show out and yes I know you have two but it takes the other one a minute to get in gear yeah no no that’s actually thank you for saying that that’s actually part of my point that I don’t feel I said clear enough like yeah maybe I could go to Bellas and I could [ __ ] somebody pretty good but I’m going to need at least three hours maybe four before I’m ready to go again you know what I mean you got to have a little break you know yeah more than a woman would maybe more than it’s you that’s the key distinction right yes yes where a woman could literally be like we just need a little bit more Lube but yeah let’s go you know yes and then remember in this industry women really once again this is scientific we really aren’t meant to have um many many many clients in a day so some days they may have more clients than a than a normal uh let’s say woman could even imagine but then they may have days when when they don’t have a client or they only have one or two clients and that they still have to take breaks they still have to do other things besides have sex so that their body holds up for their whole life yeah yeah and um I wanted to ask you know um since you mentioned puritanical views I just wanted to ask like um I I you know kind of back maybe to the Hoff brothel for for a bit but also to you you know and to your point we haven’t talked about that at all right we haven’t touched at it on it at all um no but I’m aware that there have been and the only reason I’m aware is because I was doing the research and trying to find interviews of other sex workers and one of the things they’ve mentioned is that there have been efforts over the years to make sex work in Nevada illegal and I thought maybe maybe maybe that’s where where the hesitation is coming from maybe they think I’m like part of one of those groups or something and I just wanted to ask you do you ever worry about those um movements they seem to be very puritanically based is there you said that you said well it’s not so much that the puritanical ideals exist anymore or you said something like that and I’m like well but I’ve seen them try to take out your business in the past so they kind of do so I wanted to see like what your thoughts were on that it’s it’s typically can you give my listeners some background to like the like what I’m talking about in case they don’t know of course what we’re talking about is senate or assembly bills that wind up at the legislature that would like to have uh legal proc prostitution go away and in order for it to get there there’s usually a religious sector that decides that it’s just got to go away it’s evil and because we’ve these rural bronal have been um assets to their communities for over 50 years the the houses that wind up with that type of movement are are the bigger houses you know where it turns into like a Target and what I know is that rarely recently over I’m going to say the past decade plus rarely does does that bill ever make it out of a desk drawer all right because it’s necessary for the r for the rural areas to have these businesses in their locations they are destinations they are the taxes that help support the entire community so I I’m very aware when these movements happen but I’m and I I would never say oh it’ll be okay I’m cautious because we never ever want to assume anything about who knows who and who might slip something through and so it’s very very very important for us to take it seriously which was you know part of the onesta supporting those houses in um lion County it were basically under attack it wasn’t any other County but that I didn’t know that it had my attention sure because it would have affected all of us matter where the no matter where the arrow left the bow it was going to decide everyone’s future and so you bet when when I hear about a bill I’m on with with a you know the local Senator or assemblyman and I’m like okay what’s going on what do you need for me to do do you need for me to Lobby need for me to sign up do you need for me to testify uh and I have before um you know it and it’s it’s important to understand that at least in the rural counties of Nevada we have proven over and over again through these years that clients that are looking for a brothel need for us to be in the locations we are at and it is a benefit to the to the well-being of the community to the and and to Public Safety in general and what I’m just curious testifying and lobbying what’s that been like because I again I talk to people that testify and Lobby for cannabis so I’m interested to hear what it’s like to lobby and testify for sex work the world’s oldest profession the when I when I would go into Lobby all right and I’ve done it twice now okay once I just did it on behalf of Bell hassi and the ranch all right and I I actually made a difference because Mark amaday was just a freshman as an assemblyman and he’s still in the Senate and I’m going to say it right now Mark I wish you hadn’t been elected you’ve been there too long you should go spend your money and sit on the beach but back then and I REM him when we had the uh Lincoln Day dinner in Elco I walked up to him and I said uh andella cumins I said he probably don’t remember me but I’ll tell you how we met and he had a bill that he was wanting to get pasted that stopped 18y olds from handing out $2 coupons for casinos like which was like a roll of nickels if you go I’ll give you this coupon coupon you go into the casino and it’s $2 free just present this coupon and uh and and you got $2 free nickels to play right well I understood the marketing aspect but what wasn’t understood by this young assemblyman was that these 18year olds had a job they weren’t in the casino they weren’t uh doing anything illegal they wanted a paycheck they were handing out a piece of paper why would you think there’s anything wrong with that he absolutely never ever took that bill and went anywhere with it and he said my God Bella that’s 17 years ago you remember that I said I do and and he was fresh and he was young and he was a go-getter he went to the Senate and now he’s a senator it’s blah blah blah but there are times when politicians or people that have religious ideas about what’s right or wrong are incorrect and it isn’t Progressive and in fact I I spoke to a sex work advocate it’s it’s not Progressive it’s almost like the opposite of progressive because what you’re saying about these women is that they could never have chosen to come here they’re so incompetent that they could have never you get what I’m saying it’s like an underhanded them we need to save them right we need to save them thank you you get what I’m saying it’s like it’s an underhanded nobody would have chosen to to become or sorry to to to be present here and it’s like no all all of the women have they did they they contacted me they applied I asked them are you sure you want to do this this is what’s involved and they said yeah and I said okay come you know like it’s not like you uh kidnapped them in their Dallas backyard and you know trafficked them to Nevada right yeah I totally understand you know I ask questions Point Blank that are going to reveal to me if they’re here in service or if they’re here only for the money because that money will be elusive now I did want to ask you because this is one of the things that they they do ask and it is something that is from the the brothel Wars book that I referenced that talks about Walter plankington do you know Walter plankington the the first owner of the chicken ranch do you know who I’m talking about no he was back in the joke in 40 days but um I’m gonna say he he was already gone when Russ and the guy who’s still there yeah yeah I I know he didn’t last long that’s for sure he ended up going to jail but but to your the question I was going to ask is just you know one of the main questions that those groups have is or one of the main allegations rather that they make is trafficking and one of the things out of this book um that they covered pretty openly that I thought was interesting I’m reading an excerpt from the book right now um The Pimps lived all over the United States and would call the girls as often as they could to check on how much they were making plankington Walter who the person I was just referring to allowed the girls only two phone calls a week otherwise he’d find them spending all their time on the telephone fighting with their pimps they called it sick love and when they weren’t busy whoring they consumed most of their waking hours and conversation about it again not my words that’s from the book but I wanted to ask you do you find and this is one of the main allegations those groups make do you find that women in the industry do have a a pimp on the outside I’ve heard I’ve even heard some of the women to that have been honest with me about the fact that they do have pimps on the outside they call them like their husband it’s not really their husband but their boyfriend yeah that is that a thing that happens used to yeah now now I ask do you have a significant and other at home that depends on your income what are your obligations is it children you know what because it’s going to affect uh their inservice uh I typically haven’t dealt with that situation in several decades but I know that there are still some that that deal for whatever reason they have that in their life and I still tend to believe that they could be from uh cities that have communities where that’s alive and well and maybe it’s a lower inome come maybe it’s um a a lineage of you know uh mom uh daughter sister sister sister sister type of thing and and I but I’m so careful with that to make sure because I always feel like there’s a street element to it and that street element isn’t empowering it is for the for the young lady or for the business and so you know if that’s the case I I’m never going to judge that I’m just going to say that that is it’s the other women are going to find out and it’s going to be disruptive oh yeah yeah I didn’t think about that I mean I want ask you about that but just really quick I want to give you an example that I feel like makes it make sense where those people are coming from so like there have been allegations by people that don’t believe marijuana should be be legal which I I’ve had them on my show by the way I’ve had them on my show and I’ve debated them it’s fun to to talk to people that I disagree with um and one of the main things they’ll try to say is that in these states where cannabis or marijuana has become legal like Colorado that the cartel will come in and like buy up all these houses and start growing weed in there because it’s legal and they hide under the under legality and sell to states around them and to my point I always say well maybe those other states should become legal so there’s less demand you know but but to that point Madame Bella that is I actually do see like a point where they’re coming from where it’s like if I were a pimp which for I don’t know I about said unfortunately I’m not but I don’t mean to say that well you know what I mean by that I have to chuckle thank you for laughing at that because I meant that to be funny um if I were a pimp in like let’s say Chicago well okay I know that I’m running risk in Chicago but I would think like especially like you said if I was in a big city like Chicago and I’m making a lot of money I’d start thinking like how could I maybe start to bring in other forms of Revenue like well maybe I could fly out some of my trustworthy women to Vegas where it’s legal that way I have a little bit less risk like I’m legal it’s not legal not in Vegas or sorry I meant to say Nevada thank you for correcting me I’ll fly them out to Nevada everybody thinks of Vegas and Nevada for some reason they’re synonymous it’s like it’s kind you know what’s funny that’s a similarity I’m from Illinois everybody thinks of Illinois is Chicago but there’s so much more to Illinois than Chicago there’s so much more to Nevada than Las Vegas so it’s funny I just made the same [ __ ] mistake that us illinoisans always us illinoisans were always like God damn it there’s so much more to Illinois than Chicago so my apologies on that one but what I me the way goad born in Chicago you were I I was born in Chicago coio hospital and I grew up in Libertyville Illinois that’s so [ __ ] cool yeah that’s why we have like no accent that’s funny that’s funny I didn’t even think about that talking to you you talk just like me so but anyway so you you may maybe since you’re from Illinois you understand where I was coming from but again back to my thing I see where they’re coming from where like if I was a pimp I would be like I’m gonna send some of my girls out to Nevada and so you’re saying you don’t see that much anymore because of maybe your vetting process or I I believe it’s my vetting process and um it’s expensive they don’t really want to put the money out for the legalities you know for for the the the documents well to you know they don’t really want to and does she really have a picture ID does she really have a Social Security card I mean there’s there’s things that he wants the money he wants the money every day and half of his money has to go to you right if he were to send this girl to you you know it just it doesn’t have the same ring to it and I I I’m really a I’m really against that whole pimp thing you know I’ve walked down the street in Reno on the way to my hairdresser and I’ve watched this guy right there in front of the pizza parlor just paced the scal I knew what was going on I had to keep walking or what no you don’t interfere you know and it’s like it’s there it’s out there it’s it’s that’s why legality that’s why legalization is such a good thing yeah that’s what I was going to ask you what you meant by that because frankly I know we call you a Madam but you’re kind of a you’re kind of a pimp you know what I mean like not really not in the terms that you just spoke about but you know like like Madam pimp would you agree they’re kind of synonymous in my my case I can see how someone would would like to draw a parallel all right but I am a woman and I I still believe that a man making his income off of someone else and is manipulating her to do it or threatening her to do it or any of those awful things that’s the real definition of pimp and so I don’t fit into that category ever I my I never threaten anyone I it’s all above board meaning they make the choice to come to me they’re never indebted to me you know that’s one of the reasons I don’t have a contract act that they signed why would I need that if they want me to be honest and help them and be exactly the mentor they’re looking for right now then if for some reason they need to go there is nothing that comes out of their salary or I’m sorry their half I shouldn’t say salary they their half this is so open-ended there is no way Madame Bella could wear the p word yeah I was going to ask you that if I was Colette if I was a girl instead of being Cole if I was kette uh by the way my aunt is named Colette so that’s kind of funny that’s how I’m named after uh for folks that didn’t know uh my aunt Colette and so if I was Colette and I went out for for two weeks and I did not do well would I like I wanted to ask you that would I would you be like hey Cole Colette sorry because I’m Colette now yeah hey Colette I know it didn’t work well but you were here for three weeks and you owe me you know the rent like how does that work if I I don’t know if that ever happens but like I’m just curious like if I didn’t do well do I owe you and I I would understand why I would again using the hair cutting example my my significant other would owe rent even if they cut hair or not I mean it’s a [ __ ] business so she has a station she has a room she has she said that this corre she’s hanging her business license and her um right cosmetology license so here here’s what I would do Colette I know you’d like to stay for three weeks okay I I have trainers all right are can you listen to the trainers can you let them help you NE negotiate can you help can you let them and and and not say anything just learn what you don’t know so that you can be successful all right and so you’re doing that okay so I’m going to say if you’ve been chosen by a client that trainer is going to get you a booking with that client it’s going to happen all right so you aren’t just on your own there you know how are you going to become a Bella’s Beauty if you just come in here and you go well I know how to do sex because you don’t you don’t know how to seduce you don’t know how uh Colette is a personality Cole has got he’s going to go spend all this money but Colette is gonna it’s going to be this inservice cortison so by the end of the first week ch Es are you aren’t going to owe any money by the end of the second week if your whole life falls apart in Cole’s World during the week because I look at the sheets the what we call booking sheets and I might call you in and say Colette what’s going on or do I need to talk to Cole who’s because I already know Colette has no future and no past Colette is like I really like this I can be wild and crazy I can do everything Cole always wanted to do and so it’s like they finding Colette who’s Colette and then if by the end of the second week let’s say didn’t go well I would say you know if it’s best that you go home I understand I’m never going to hold you accountable for this I understand what your goal was however you might need to go look at why you’re doing this what’s what’s your driving motivation to be in service to humanity now I really I rarely have that kind of a conversation Colette but every single lady there takes on Sunday it can take me hours and hours and hours to get through what I call payroll because they all want to share what they’ve learned or what they’ve read in that big pile of books by the CB Radio and how they they’re evolving and I never cut them short but Colette you can do this you just have to put coal in the wardrobe with a little duct tape on his mouth and decide who Colette is now and you know I wanted to ask I’ve heard other houses offer the ability let’s just say the worst case scenario Colette did not do well and I’m just a [ __ ] mess she’s probably gonna have to get her debit card out right well and that’s what I was gonna I was gonna ask probably I would probably say here’s what I would probably say look it’s your first time here I’ve got it sure I have done done that many times yeah and I’m sure I’m sure that that has happened you know like hey you tried this this wasn’t for you let’s laugh not talking to co or Colette right Colette Colette you know a lot of times um in in the past for me my interviewing had to evolve so that I brought in the evolved Colette the one that really wanted to do this even if it was a bucket list thing you know I once had a little Mormon gal come in and she’d uh she’d been really heavy and now she’d had like surgery and she was much little and and and she just wanted to know what it was like to be in the house to be a cortison and you know she went through all the paperwork and and one of the girls actually invited her in to do a double party with her and it was really the only party she had until the day her husband another Mormon that’s good I have no nothing bad to say about Mormons but they just happen to be yeah second party was when her husband came to the door picked her out of line line up and she charged him to go to bed and that was the end of her two week stay it was beautiful yeah she lived out of fantasy yeah and I so other houses offer the ability it sounds like you don’t have made services or bartending but kind of the reason I was asking that it’s cool that you it sounds like you offer women especially like first- timers that maybe didn’t know what they were getting into it also sounds like maybe you vet them enough so that that type of situation doesn’t happen anymore but again it sounds like this does happen at some other houses and they offer the ability to perform like duties to offset their debt for example housekeeping or whatever um is that anything that ever comes into the equation or are you just basically like nah we’re good get out of here no I don’t say get out of here I say well I don’t mean to get you know yeah keep in touch you know it isn’t I because I I’ve never run in a different house from Bellis I would think that the lady somehow reimburses the house for what she owes I I haven’t heard about you know um doing some housekeeping or doing things like that and you know being cortison run uh you know the two ladies that we call staff are ladies that worked for me made hundreds of thousands of dollars working for me then now it’s with me but they they’re at a time in their life where they want to teach what they know and they also uh don’t they’re good with answering the door and they’re good with being on team with the cortison so this whole cortison run thing is there’s just no one from the outside that’s never been involved in sensual sexual services and that that’s just never happened before there’s always been people that are outside whether they’re cleaners or or chefs or CFOs or uh you know we’ll say cleaners but you know this particular taking care of Bellis Henda Ranch and keeping it absolutely I’m going to say probably the cleanest house in Nevada it is done because everyone has pride in how it looks you know I understand at some houses in order to use one of the VIP rooms there’s like a $25 charge because then they’re going to send the maid in and they’re got to pay her clean up that room well it doesn’t work that way aelis the lady cleans up their room you know one of the other uh cortison that we’ll call Hostess bartender will go in and and San but why should there be a charge the the cortison you know cleaned up the towels wiped up the floor remade the bed she was part of setting it up for her next um well for her her team player the lady that’s going to use that room right behind her so things get sprayed down that’s easy but they need they don’t need to pay they need to understand the running of a business because it is their business too yeah well said well said well um you know you we kind of already talked about decriminalization versus legalization which is one of the things that I wanted to end our conversation on um it sounds like you’re supportive of the full decriminalization of sex work which I actually do think like when we’re talking about copying and pasting I think one of the shortcomings it’s what you started with and that’s really what I really liked about how you started with talking about Nevada and Reno is being one of the big issues with the legalization of sex work in Nevada you can’t legalize something but then carve out a place where it remains highly illegal like what the [ __ ] are you talking about you know what I mean so full decriminalization yeah full decriminalization is the copy and paste the only way to prevent illegal activity or drastically reduce it in Vegas or Reno is to have a district and when you have a district then then there’s how should I say then it tends to keep the illegals out or a larger percentage of them out and it’s time for that you know and then it’s a serious thing you know what is really going on in the casinos and why why did why did is it Steve W that’s got win why was he such a big advocate for closing us down you need to tell me more on that please tell me more on that because I do not know about any of this please tell me a little bit more this year it’s a it’s years ago okay but he he was anti brothel all the way and how do people like look this up if they want to like read about it online I don’t know will like do they look up Steve win anti brothel or like I you know I’m just gonna say take a look but he was and he would have been happy if all of us in rural Nevada had gone away he he he fin apparently he just stopped talking about it because it it wasn’t it was wasn’t popular these communities require us to help them sustain theel financially I mean it’s it’s a big deal I know I mentioned it Wells now has five truck stops right go to a truck stop in any any other state that has no house legal house in that Community it’s it’s what they call lot lizards yeah and it’s pimps and women and they knock on your truck they terrorize these guys or women whatever it is and and I I’m I’m serious Wells would be in trouble if I wasn’t there they’d move in and now you know it’s like it would be almost impossible for Elco County Sheriff’s Department to to do anything but chase them around in a parking lot so there this this particular industry has a lot of of things I’m going to say attributes that has way more positive outcomes an incredible number of outcomes but we don’t say anything we just are yeah you know for the longest time I really had to keep my head down below the Sage Brush to keep from getting it shot off but it’s like now I’m standing up and saying I’m the spokeswoman this this is where this gets to go but and and I owned Bella’s longer than Dennis owned his first house and so I I know the direction I I can feel it and I get to share it I the it the facts help people understand through people like you how this works because I remember going through an earthquake I thought it’s a train we are near a track I like I went my head went through all these things scenarios of what it could be and then finally my incredible husband came downstairs and he says did you feel that earthquake but then I knew what it felt like people talk we talk about the brothel industry it’s like me experiencing the earthquake until you a person’s actually been involved or studied about it or gone into one taken a tour ask their questions they don’t really know it’s a little like a foreign language to them well do you mean this do you mean this and so as we’re probably in episode three right now but as long as with all this great time that we’ve been talking but the more I get the chance to explain why it’s necessary why it’s good for a community why it’s never harmful for anyone that that never needs to have a service like that it never harms anyone and that’s that’s the rule if it harms someone you should never do it but if it doesn’t then you’re good to go yeah yeah and I just wanted to close out this conversation with a topic I think this is a good way to end this conversation maybe um some of the negatives and I want to end off with some of the positives so I know negatives are hard to talk about because frankly we’re both supporters of the industry you know so it’s like for me I don’t I I struggle to come up with a lot of negatives I and I can come up easily with a lot of positives as we’ve talked about like the world would truly be a better place I think um but I think one of the the most Salient and accurate I wouldn’t even call it a negative thing I just think it’s something to be open and honest about is the effect it can have on women who I don’t even really know honestly I’m not going to sit here and try to guess what I want to ask you if is if you’ve ever heard of this have you heard of women losing the ability to become pregnant because of this line of work or is that dramatic I’m I’m honestly ask asking you because somebody has told me that I personally have never had any of the the women that have worked with me for 37 years uh not be able to reproduce because they were in the industry yeah um if there is a negative I’ve I’ve worn the same negative being involved in something that is so harshly judged and so if I were a cortison right now it would probably be best to keep it private and where you don’t go out and tell a lot of people because they won’t understand the calling and a person has to follow their calling it’s like a Dharma okay judgment stigma stereotyping I’ll I’ll I’ve worn that for 37 years it’s getting better it there’s less and I’m thankful for that but for the ladies that are young and they are in the industry I don’t think that that’s over I think mine has lightened because I’m wise I I I’m really at this place where like my my PR gentleman says Bella I’m glad you’re the age you are it it really helps people hear you and so I can I can hear what he’s saying as well but in the negativity part sex is greatly misunderstood what happens behind that gr closed door is really misunderstood and these women get to be careful about who they tell if their the rest of their dreams and goals revolve around entering another industry that might really block their forward movement as far as what’s next yeah so that to me that’s still real and that’s why I’m talking I don’t think people need to shout to the world what they do because we aren’t really what we do we are what we are because we came here just to be what we are are so when that day comes and she is no longer a cortis that shouldn’t hang on her as a label she was in a service industry that mattered to her at this time in her life for her involvement yeah have you again in the terms of uh NE have you heard of are you aware of the term blanket party ah isn’t that where they roll somebody up in a blanket and do bad things to them or is it got a different uh meaning now I heard that it was like a the idea that yeah if a woman was working or doing better or something it sounds kind of maybe like a a residual of that Hoff culture for lack of better words that yeah you’d throw a blanket on her and beat her with a lock in a sock ah you know I’ve never heard of that being done there uh and I bring up what I’m actually talking about I’m kind of blanketing a lot of different behaviors again maybe attributed to the Hoff estate um people have I’ve described slipping nare into people’s like shampoo or bleach to sabotage them so that they don’t look like uh presentable to customers have you heard of anything like that with regard to negativity negativity no however I will tell you if those things are going on in a house that is a really good reason for them to never let coal through the door the patron Cole you mean well yeah yeah because or no the inter the the the journalist the interviewer the man because somebody’s gonna slip sure and they and and in part of the response to the question we touched on uh in our earlier conversation was about why wouldn’t they let you in yeah because they like to take certain Women program what they’re going to say and nothing more and if and so they’re handpicked women all of those houses they’re handpicked and it it and so they’re in a place that works for them both sides all right they’re like the oh the the poster women and anything else that’s going on in there that those other women might not say what they’re meant to say and if they slip or they get caught in a situation being asked a question that’s controversial if they’re honest they’re going to H itate or they’re going to slip and it and we all know that it’s just always better to tell the truth because if you lie it just gets so deep that eventually it becomes this horrible Fiasco right so that’s why at this point in time let’s say in Lion County that there is no leader that just puts a woman on each side and here’s your spokespeople so they have no one they want to put in that situation and so some of them have gravitated towards me because when they ask if they can do a podcast I say yes it’s okay to talk yeah and they’re just they’re Blown Away by that really Bella well that other house said no I I couldn’t do anything I like that and I said please feel free how else are they going to follow their path how else are they gonna learn see and I voice I have so much respect for that approach and I have so much disdain for the other approach like it makes me upset it makes like if you can’t tell it makes me angry as a advocate for sex work like godamn it why aren’t you letting these women talk you know like these are the women that need to talk not you the the other you know I understand yeah so it it’s it feels like we’re shooting our own foot cutting off our nose despite our face like we’re stronger together CH yes we are and you know if they’re happy with let’s say the money that’s coming in and they see no reason to evolve or uh to pick up the Baton that was handed to them I I think they just laid it on the coffee table but it’s it’s going to it’s it it won’t work forever it’s going to desell things have to keep moving forward and so here is a solution you know it it doesn’t mean that any of those other houses that have madams or managers or whatever they label them they don’t really have to speak up but they could darn sure evolve from within thank you and become better better um uh better businesses for these cortis to hang their business license in and at some point in time maybe they would want to speak up but those are the things that are they’re going to happen anyway because I’m talking you’re going to put this out there’s going to be other podcasters my my message will be the same and it’s going to go out there I believe other owners are going to hear what I have to say well what the heck does bella mean by empowerment but we’re doing as much as we can blah blah blah okay but eventually I just think they’re going to start to get it maybe I’ll be alive but I don’t know but in the meantime I’m going to speak up about it and there’s times that I wish I had more rooms because these ladies they all say the same thing I want to work for you and I say you’re working with me and I’m working with you yeah it it’s going they’re just going to have to come in when there’s room yeah and leave with the knowledge and maybe though some of them will take it to other houses I don’t know yeah hopefully hopefully that you know well I’ll plant little cortison seeds to to uh wrap up I want to give you the room on the positive still but I also just wanted to I I wondered how how has business been I mean I’m sure it was awful during the pandemic but post pandemic and and I the reason I’m asking this is because you mentioned the CB radio I’ve heard from many workers that most of the business is truckers um which is fine I mean those are the people that come through Nevada but I I’m just asking is that accurate or do you see like people like me coming through just as a tourist like hey what’s what’s you know what’s business been like and I bring that up in the negatives only because I’ve heard that it’s not been good lately but I wanted to ask you okay Bellas is doing great oh good okay good to hear there was a time when it was about 5050 between car traffic and and I I’m going back over the years okay that business was 50% uh car traffic pickups 50% um long haulers okay now it’s because of you know um Windover uh Park City Salt Lake City uh and then that’s going of course East and then when you get up into Idaho you’ve got Twin Falls you have Boise you have uh Sun Valley we are we’re just way more car traffic and that I will say that the gentlemen women couples coming through the door they have a really decent amount of money and they’re spending it on themselves getting the res getting the experience they want to have so of course it helps business for me to be able to talk on great podcasts like yourself okay it it really does because there’s more people than that go oh man we better go check the website out oh wow we better go stop it hey we’re going through the crossroads right and and it’s like it that’s all good we have no problem giving complimentary tours I always say to the whoever it is I say you know if you have it would you Tipp her you know and but the more people come through whether they are wanting an experience or not as long as they take the tour they’re going to know more about what’s down the Halls why would a person go down the hall what does it cost how does this work you know it’s like it’s it’s an it’s a mini education on on being human correctly yeah yeah and you know what’s funny is when I went on tour so I did go to the Bunny Ranch despite not being welcomed and uh I asked for a tour uh from the first woman who was not very kind she said yes I can give you a tour which by the way when I was driving up yeah it said free tours free drinks no sex required there was like multiple signs that said that and I was under the impression that that was the case because again I was familiar with the establishment and she said when I asked can I get a tour she said yeah I can give you a tour to my room and I said but like okay I want to see the I want to see I came here I’ve been driving 24 [ __ ] hours I want to see the Bunny Ranch you know what I mean and she ended up just taking me to her room we did the negotiation I ended up talking to another girl who took me on the tour and look I wasn’t there for sex I was there for the experience but to your point I bought her a drink great you know I bought her a drink gave her a tip you know like because thank you for giving me the tip like I’m not trying to waste your time I know you don’t make money off of giving me a tour so yeah I’m going to give you a tip I’m going to buy you a drink you know make sure that you feel it was worth your while so yeah it and that’s just that’s I’m going to say that that’s a a random act of kindness in a way you you knew in your heart that you had two experiences one you’d never want to have again and the other was like God I wish I’d seen you first right and it but you still remember the first first one mhm yes it was rough that’s the tarnish that will be in your mind forever as your first experience this time you won’t be able to wipe it away oh no no you should have been seen what you should have heard what happened in negotiations she was so rude to me so first of all gosh I I I just want to tell you this story really quickly just because I think you’d like it my listeners at this point have already heard this story um but I went in and I was actually forced to pick a girl I watched cat house back in the day I didn’t I didn’t watch it back in the day I actually bought the DVD recently and watched it and I was under the impression that if you were nervous that you could buy liquid courage before you picked a girl well they made me pick a girl so I picked the girl I picked the girl that looked like it was she was my age just because that felt most comfortable we went to the bar and the bar bartender was like what would you like I was like I’ll have a beer he got me a beer he’s like it’s $6 I was like great so I gave him $6 and I’m like talking to the girl kind of asking her questions how long you’ve been here stuff like that and I hear him out of the out of the like side of my ear he’s like hey boss I told you $12 I said wait a minute I thought you said six for the beer and he said yeah six for the beer 12 for the round and I was like oh my apologies I didn’t realize I was buying her a drink I’ll but I will buy her one I have no problem so I bought two women a drink that night actually when I think about it um but I me so I went into the negotiation with her because as I told you I asked can I get a tour she said yeah you can get a tour to my room she took me to her room we had negotiations I just wanted to hear you know I wanted to see a menu because that’s the other thing the signs said you can see a menu she was like no I don’t have a menu what do you want I asked what I wanted just hypothetically what I enjoy and the price was insane insane and just because people are wondering right now I asked for oral sex she said the price was $1,500 which you know like I don’t know that’s whatever I’m not asking you to comment right now Bella um but I ended up saying you know that’s a little bit out of my price range she offered me a few more options I wasn’t interested in purchasing sex that night so I I said no and but but just to kind of lighten up the mood as we departed I said hey wasn’t that funny how I kind of misunderstood that the bartender wanted you to buy me that drink I was trying to like just be nice and she said yeah well you should have bought me a drink and I was like that’s not what I was saying I wasn’t saying that I shouldn’t have bought you a drink I was trying like sorry I was trying to say sorry that I’m not purchasing your services tonight and isn’t that funny how I didn’t understand how I was buying you a drink and she just like made it really personal and the other girl was really nice to me so and gave me a tour and that’s why I gave her a tip and a drink you know gave her some cash sorry I just had to share my story because it was not a good experience that is what that that’s leaves a bad taste in a client’s mouth and it’s sad to say that because it happened at a a a fairly famous house right person would assume if they were an assumer that all houses are that way right yeah and that is totally unfair and when clients you know come into Bellis I say look there’s only one Bellas and if this was a like a fabulous experience and I can see the smile on your face please remember this experience happened here I can never guarantee what might happen at another brel and it’s because of stories like that and is that maybe a good it’s it’s a part of the negativity that’s what I was going to ask you is that maybe a good way to wrap up the negativity is that you said it in our first part of our conversation you said that one of the things you didn’t like about Dennis Hoff was that cast this wide net and made him bigger than him himself and I’m wondering if part of what you meant by that is because exactly what you just said like I assumed that this is the Showcase brothel this is the Bunny Ranch it was on HBO that means that the experience I had there that’s supposed to be the best I thought and so so you’re right I would assume that it’s only going to get worse as I go to other houses and what you’re saying is that’s not true so I wanted to wrap that back around to put a cap on the negativity do you think that that is what you meant by he made himself larger than what he is that he almost defined what isn’t definable that’s well said he he it can lead a client or someone that’s looking at the industry from the outside that knows nothing to believe that it’s that way at all houses or maybe worse but typically people don’t go to the positive well maybe it would be better well it it’s something is less than good or satisfying typically people stop short at giving it another go if the experience was um even moderate they’ll give it a go but if it’s downright rude they’re going to think twice before they put theirself in that situation again and I know that because I certainly would yeah and as we close with the N I wanted to just say I’m sorry for we did spend a lot of you know Air Time on negativity but this is a proex work conversations so I feel it’s only right that we Embrace maybe what’s not perfect you know so I I thank you for being open to talk about what isn’t the best and what you are aware of oh did I lose you no I’m right here oh okay your video froze for a second oh uh oh so but I am you know I I Am pro I’m going to still call it sex worker because it’s a lot of it can eventually tie into the actual you know sex part of Being Human but the positive is a healing and we we get hurt many times by our own making but it’s the healing that we that helps us uh transcend and forgive and learn to be better people and to to I’m just going to say Bellis to come in there and be accepted just the way you are and and and being met with someone that says welcome to Bellas you have you been here before and oh you’d like a tour absolutely now we’d like for you to pick a lady that to be your tour guide they all give great tours but then when we explain or share with uh the group of ladies there look this appears to just be a tour but then don’t assume that either but give the best tour you’ve you’ve ever given today and it’s always positive you know I get the emails where the gentleman says oh wow I really would like to come back I’ll bring more money perfect that means everything went really well you know and uh I don’t I don’t know if you’re uh all of your viewers know but you know we we do get a lot of what I call laborers that come through the door because Idaho is a big farming Dairy farming all of that they are just as important and when they walk through the door as a man that walks through with a black AMX and he gets to be he he everybody works or should work diligently to give whoever they work for an honest day’s work for their money and so when a client comes in for the experience and and for many of those uh men they don’t have a family here then it best be pleasant and accepting of a situation that maybe they never meant to find themselves in so th this industry is just it’s magical it’s it’s multi-faceted it’s it’s been my platform for growth becoming exactly who I am today sitting in front of you yeah well um I feel like we could spend a lot of time on the positives but I wanted to give you the space because I know we have been taking a lot we’ve I’ve taken a lot of your time I wanted to give you the space to talk about what you feel the positives are if there are any more that you’d like to talk about um as we wrap up our conversation today I mean I truly think it’s something you’ve said throughout that it’s it will make civilization Society better um but you know I don’t know just any other thoughts on the positives like because again I I feel bad for calling you and spending so much of your time talking about the negatives but again us being both PRX I feel it’s important for us to embrace that because what we’re going to work to do is improve make it more positive right so that there’s less negatives to talk about but again what what are some more positives um well in in just wrapping up what you’re talking about is negative sure in map making you have to a person has to understand where they’re at before they can embark on what’s meant to what it’s meant to evolve into so the positive is as we’re sitting here talking if one brothel is evolving then there’s a chance there’s an opport Unity for it even if it never caught on in Nevada but it went across the country anyway and and I was a consultant for States that had watched your podcast and said Bella we understand what you’re saying can you help us create this then I will have been successful so the positives are right now a person can experience their sexuality safely without any concerns about STI STDs that’s how positive they can have the experience without any obligation of having to call someone in the morning and and they can feel good or great about the fact that they engaged in their sexuality safely which means they they would only feel good about it and I feel like we don’t always feel good about some of the choices we make but I have yet to see someone that had an experience at Bella say oh boy I really wish I hadn’t done that it’s like it’s not going to happen so we we should be thankful that and I’m thankful that I’ve been involved in something that I really see only positive things about for everyone involved that makes that choice to be a cortison or a client yeah well hey you’re going to go down in history as one of the early figures that participated in uh what we call the legal trade of sex work so I wanted to give you the space in light of that do you have anything else you’d like to mention for our audience before we before we go I don’t think this will be the last time we talk I’d love to come to Nevada and visit you but just you know to give you the space well when it’s when it’s meant to be I I’m thinking you have enough footage right now that if you chose you could run about three episodes yeah or they’re be sitting there for a really long time no they that my audience likes the long form conversation so I want to say again thank you on behalf of them uh this is one episode so they they they’re in it for the long haul yeah oh there you go get your popcorn and your soft drink or beer that’s right yeah and just remember out there life is too short for bad booze so drink or bad weed yeah or bad weed drink exactly and you know if anyone’s in the area feel free to stop at Bella oh and there’s Bella’s restaurants you can have great food and you can have the other twoo I always my my little motto was life is too short for bad food or bad sex those are some wise words yeah and then remember it’s bell. us bell. us sneak peek at those cortis us yep folks if it’s easier for you we have that in the podcast description so you can just click on it and go right there um so Bella thank you for your time uh I am so excited for my audience to hear our conversation I and I look forward to the next time we chat I I don’t think this is going to going to be the last time we chat so well let’s just say we know yes okay okay and I’m gonna say thank you again thank you to all of your audience and bye for now yeah bye for now and can I since we again since we started as kind of a drug podcast can I ask you is it preferred that you have a drink or like let’s say if we hung out would would you have a joint with me or is that too much would we just have a drink together uh I I would say that it would be best if we just had a great glass of wine perfect however I am never against the Cannabis thing and I know it’s another conversation but there was a period of time when I did use Rick Simpson Oil the highest strength they had to absolutely cure my cervical cancer and the tumor in my uterus and it did it in two weeks for the cervical cancer two months for the tumor well that’ll be the first thing we talk about next time we talk so so I’m just saying I there just came a day when when I the Cannabis said not now yeah but bye golly I thank it every day that’s beautiful well Bella thank you and folks I hope you found I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did we’ll see you in the next episode I loved it thank you bye for now take care
The Cole Memo 
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